Retraction!
Posted by lamarzulli on January 12, 2013
Retraction!
I put up a quote by the LAMSA Bible yesterday and since then I have had several letters to links about it. After spending some time examining these links I have come to the conclusion that I was wrong about the LAMSA Bible. I thought it was another translation, like the NIV. Here’s what changed my mind!
What is the Lamsa Bible? Is it trustworthy like the King James Bible?
Question: What is the Lamsa Bible? Is it trustworthy like the King James Bible? If not, how is it different?
Answer: I used the Lamsa Bible myself, when I was into the occult, over two decades ago. But I still remember the strange things it says to this day. The Lamsa Bible is supposedly a translation of the Aramaic Peshitta Bible, authored by occultist George Lamsa. He was a very sly man. He used as his base text the King James Bible, and changed passages to fit what he wanted them to say, then claimed he was only “translating the Aramaic.”
Perverted Prophecies of the Lord Jesus Christ
For example, in Matthew 27:46 God’s words say: “And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?” But Lamsa’s book says “Eli, Eli, lemana shabakthani,” which according to his notes means, “My God, my God, for this I was spared,” or “this was my destiny.” This destroys the Lord Jesus Christ’s quotation of Psalm 22:1. Even worse, he changed Psalm 22:1 into heresy:
“My God, my God, why hast thou let me to live? and yet thou hast delayed my salvation from me, because of the words of my folly.”
A person reading Jesus’ words on the cross and Psalm 22 would have no idea that God made that psalm into a precise prophecy of the crucifixion of the Lord Jesus Christ.
We know that the Lord Jesus is the “only-begotten” of God the Father. But in Lamsa’s perversion it reads, “the first-born” (John 1:14, 18). Jesus wasn’t the first born from God; He is the ONLY one, God the Son and Son of God.
1 Timothy 3:16 says clearly “God was manifest in the flesh;” but Lamsa wrongly wrote, “it [the "divine mystery"] is revealed in the flesh.” Jesus wasn’t a mystery with a body. He was, and is, God Himself.
Micah 5:2 tells us that the Lord Jesus has always lived; but instead of “whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting,” Lamsa lies, “whose goings forth have been predicted from of old, from everlasting.” This makes no sense. Jesus wasn’tpredicted from eternity; He has existed from eternity!
I stand corrected! L. A. Marzulli
221 Responses to “Retraction!”
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Ant Writes said
Wow, thank you. I’ve used the Lamsa bible, now I’ll be aware. Thank you!
LookingUp said
Thanks, LA. I appreciate your willingness to check it out and then post the retraction. Almost and unheard of thing today. God bless you.
nomemoleste said
2 Tim. 2.
22 Flee also youthful lusts:
but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, [Armor of God]
with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart.
23 But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes.
24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive;
but be gentle unto all men,
apt to teach,
patient,
25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves;
if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil,
who are taken captive by him at his will.
Anticipating the sunday bun discussion re: gifts of the spirit. And continuing the sabbath study…
Spiritual Armor is of course most obviously spiritual.
Eph. 6
]
10 Finally, my brethren, [nope, sisters are not excused
be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might.
11 Put on the whole armour of God,
that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, [clearly spiritual armor]
but against principalities, against powers,
against the rulers of the darkness of this world,
against spiritual wickedness in high places.
Romans 13 [by putting on the Armor of God, we are putting on Christ, spiritually]
8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
11 And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep:
for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.
12 The night is far spent, the day is at hand:
let us therefore cast off the works of darkness,
and let us put on the armour of light.
13 Let us walk honestly, as in the day;
not in rioting and drunkenness, not in chambering and wantonness, not in strife and envying.
14 But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ,
and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.
note: cp. to growing in the the stature of the fullness of Christ
note: relation of Armor of God to the 10 Commandments — consider spiritual impact of breaking
1 no other gods, no idols (helm)
2 no disrespecting God’s name (sword)
3 no murder (boots)
4 no coveting (belt)
5 no adultery (shield)
6 no stealing (vest)
7 no false witness (jacket)
Honor parents (elders) and keep the sabbath, (God’s Holy Days, Christ’s plan)
1 evangels … Passover … Christ crucified
2 prophets … Unleavened … Christ descends bodily into the tomb, and spiritually into hell
3 pastors … First Fruits … Christ resurrects (has power to lay down his life and pick it up)
4 teachers … Pentecost … Christ sends the Holy Ghost
5 apostles … Trumpets … Christ returns (for bride, as a thief to those not prepared, later with armies)
6 deacons … Atonement … Christ rules in the millennial kingdom
7 elders … Tabernacles … Christ renews creation
He’s saying much the same thing from different angles.
All also related to His 7 Spirits, the 7 Spirits of God.
Yeshua has revealed Himself to us repeatedly, for those with eyes to see and ears to hear.
Christ extends His Spirit to us, which is the Spirit of God, given without measure to Him as The Vine, for the purpose of helping with His ministries (evangels, prophets, etc.) — for the good of all (not just the Church).
Susan said
LA, I respcet your eagerness to retract an earlier reference to Lamsa. It is time to be keenly watching for the subltleties
of the wicked one (as alwaays). Thanks for a good example of humility, we all need to remember that we are capable of swallowing
some error from time to time. The important thing is that you were alarmed about it and quick to retract your words.
Thanks again,
Susan Carlton, Ohio
Claudia said
Ditto, ditto, ditto…..I respect you LA.
Elaine said
And this is why I come to the Marzulli blog! He has the gift to teach and is humble enough to tell us when he may have spoken in error! That is a real teacher. God bless and keep him in these perilous times……it reminds me of Christ saying that even the elect might be led astray if that were possible. Thank God that this lesson came now, without harm done, so we can stay on our toes!
Darla H. said
Hi Elaine
I am getting ready to run some errands but I wanted to tell you after yesterday when I was so mad at Phil whose is not worthy of the term Doctor….I am going to contact the woman counselor who was the guest ( more like slaughtered lamb)and encourage her….she stated that she has almost 50 SRA victims who she counsels…..I am not letting this thing go….it is so on me right now to make a difference about this issue…I am serious about making a documentary…I woke up with it still on my heart……anyhow thanks for your response from you and Moon…Moon makes me laugh….sometimes we need a good laugh….:) Talk later after my errands…all day event
Pudding said
For better or worse nowadays we are in an “upgrade mentality” unfortunately what would appear to be an upgrade can end as a down grade, one must be patient and ever so cautious considering the subtility of the times we live in, in which all are susceptible to.
nomemoleste said
Which has happened before…
(cp. wooden nickles)
Pudding said
Nome said: “cp. wooden nickles”
Here is one for you which I like but do not hear to often:
..pig in a poke..As in; dagnabbit I bought a pig in a poke, I should have realized the price was to good to be true. Or Eric believes that buying a used car is buying a pig in a poke.
Etymology of pig in a poke
“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pig_in_a_poke”
Don`t confuse this with pig in a blanket but it does have relationship to letting the cat out of the bag.. ≧◡≦
nomemoleste said
hehe!
This of course makes me think of: buying “cat in a hat”
(… possibly because I lived in the Azores and picked up some Portuguese.
note: Portuguese “comprar gato por lebre” = “to buy a cat instead of a hare” re: wiki)
Which no doubt would have to be a “rabbit in the hat”
(just begging to be pulled out … hat’s being different than “holes is the pocket”)
Not to let the “cat out of the bag.”
(cats love bags and often willing insert themselves, as a trivial youtube search will prove)
But of course pudding knew that, since he’s consorting with cheshires
(as evidence by the whiskers: ≧◡≦ instead of just a toothy smile )
ツ
(or alt 12484 for those who are unicode deprived)
Pudding said
Nome, Que coincidência! Eu falo Português também.
Not long ago I bought something online and I received an inferior cheaper version, a friend said to me, Você comprou gato por lebre (you bought a cat for a hare) and I said do what? then he explained it to me and I taught him pig in a poke, this “gato por lebre” is now stuck in my mind forever!
I smile like a cheshire cat when I remember gato por lebre. ≧◡≦
My wife had 5 cats, now down to 1 ;( she keeps them at the mother-in-laws, on every visit I give them a bag or a box to play in what clowns!
Here you go:
Você comprou gato no gorro por coelho no chapéu.
(You bought a cat in the bonnet for a rabbit in a hat.)
nomemoleste said
Eu não falo muito bom, obrigado.
pensei em você quando vi isso
♨ (hot springs)
Mas isso me faz pensar em café.
Ela farejou alho e sabia que a seu amigo estava cozinhando.
The “nos” (nooshes) and “nas” (nashes) in Portuguese used to trip up my ears.
Ant Writes said
Since I speak Spanish, Brazilan Portuguese to me sounds like a Russian 5 yr old trying to speak Spanish
LookingUp said
Thanks for not writing it upside down, but it might as well be backwards for me.
Pudding said
Nome, ♨ Humm looked like a steaming pile of garlic to me.
I hear you about contracting articles with prepositions then pluralizing them then add to that conjugating the verbs putting the noun and adjective and articles in proper gender an order, not an easy task if English is your first language. Then as Ant pointed out the rhythm of speech and including regional pronunciation it is even harder to listen to and pronounce. I find that if I drink enough Brazilian coffee I do better with Brazilian Portuguese and if I decrease the quantity by 50% and increase the potency of Portuguese coffee by 50% I can understand European Portuguese better which is a lot easier than Brazilian Portuguese to listen to.
Ant, Don’t feel alone I hear almost the same from Brazilians talking about Spanish especially from Mexico as opposed to Argentina or Spain. I don’t quite understand it since when I listen to Portuguese or Spanish you have many verbs and vocabulary in common but each has his own radical pronunciation.
I must say Argentinians when they speak Spanish It is sweater to the ear, makes me want to Tango.
Ant Writes said
I learned Castillian, but my teacher was from Peru, so I have a notable Peruvian accent I think. I can understand some Portuguese if spoken slowly, but I’l answer in Spanish. They seem to understand me better than I can understand them though.
Rose from Kentucky said
˙ɐʞnɥɔlɐɯ ʞɐʞ ǝʞsnɹ od ǝʇnɹoʌoƃ ʎƃɐɯ ɐʎ
Ъа могъ гожорут но руске как малчука
Ant Writes said
You can only understand a little Russian? You didn’t spell it right, but I understood it anyway
Rose from Kentucky said
It’s not the Russian, it’s wrestling with the Cyrillic converter. That’s what came up. It’s so fun to play with these things!
fitpro58 said
When I saw the blog for this ‘other’ bible, I went uuugh! Not another per-version. ALL ‘bibles’ outside of the AV KJV are more counterfeits to the real deal. Over 36k changes have been made to the text of the KJV. It is obvious the enemy is doing all he can to subvert, omit, downgrade deity, etc, and typically in an insidious ‘hath God said?’ Kind of way. This includes ALL Alexandrian/Vatican origin texts that have spawned everything from the NIV, ESV, RSV, et al,… And even the NKJV. In conclusion, refer ONLY to the KJV. ‘Often imitated-never duplicated-ask for it by name’.
Barbara in VA said
Hi: I’ve probably written this before, but I think this is a good place to repeat it. Way back in the 40′s when I was a young child and was saved through the teaching of some wonderful ladies of God, one of those ladies suggested to us to memorize as much scripture as we could (I never was good at memory things). The reason was that she predicted that some day our Bibles would be confiscated and become unlawful to own. That has haunted me down through the years, but a number of years ago, I realized that Bible confiscation would not become necessary because of all the new translations that had changed God’s Word to make it unrecognizable to the original. When I realized this, I went back to the KJV which I had read and used and learned from as a child, teenager, and young adult.
Thank you LA for being so honest and so humble to retract your statement about that “other” bible.
Revelation 22:18-21 (KJV)
18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.
21 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.
fitpro58 said
Amen Barbara! Scripture from God’s Pure word speaks for itself.
Claudia said
Mistranslations and inserting of prejudice didn’t just start with the KJ, even the Jewish records were tainted during the Essenes times (that is why they separated, isolated themselves from the Temple Jews.) Their tracking of the Holy Days were different too, because one did it on the lunar, and the other on the solar. Lunar is what the temple Jews were doing. The Essenes were solar, as I believe John the Baptist was also, as he may have come from them. During the time of Jesus’s crucifixion there were two groups of Jews that celebrated Passover on different days. Lunar to me is always kinda on the dark side. It is best to rely on the Holy Spirit who is the only True Teacher and Translator. He is the one who brings the Word down to us unblemished in a manner that no human can taint.
Another reason we will not know the “day or hour”, because even those Holy days I previously posted could have been from a lunar calendar, and who know which one is right. Better to just pick a month for probababilities…..which is what I am going to do as the math gets more defined.
Claudia said
I meant to say also, that we should all be careful that we don’t make any one version of the Bible into an Idol.
Ant Writes said
Thumbs up Claudia
Eric W. said
I’d never heard of it until yesterday. Glad you vetted it out.
Pity…I had a bunch of tar and feathers all set to go here.
Ah well…I’ll be nice…this time.
Darla H. said
You can use your Tar and Feathers on Dr.Phil!!!!!UGH! see you later
Eric W. said
Done that many times. Sadly…he’s still talking.
Eric W. said
“http://megiddofilms.podomatic.com/entry/2012-07-11T01_14_01-07_00″
Alex Jones’ New Age Doctrine and Phariseeism
An hour and ten minute radio show that dispels this myth that Alex Jones is some fellow Christian crusader like far too many people think he is. Not a smear job, either. Factual. Specific.
Pam said
Whew…..so HAPPY to hear this! I read your first post, then went to the site. As soon as I saw the word “God” being used instead of “Yahuweh”, I KNEW that was a “red flag”. Also the other sites giving warning to this guy was a big eye opener.
Check out a version called The Scriptures sold through The Torah Institute out of Louisville, KY. It is the closest to the original I have found yet.
fitpro58 said
Blasphemy!!! ‘Using ‘God vs yeshuawuau or whatever! Another Hebrew roots cult slave. Sorry to hear that for you Pam. Can you quote chapter and verse on that? Didn’t think so. And make sure you’re ‘keeping the law’ also dear. :/
Hashnash said
EASY THERE…fella! Just saying that an Aramaic based translation of the Word would never use the title God for our creator. Please play nicely.
Sent from my Verizon Wireless smartphone
Eric W. said
I’m certainly no fan of the HRM or the Sacred Word Movement…to say the least… but just because someone pops off with an occasional Yahweh or Y’Shua does not automatically consign them to cult status and blasphemy.
I’ve never seen the spelling of “Yahuweh” so I’m assuming that’s a typo.
And yes I saw/heard Pastor Mike’s show about this the other day.
fitpro58 said
Eric, ‘popping off’ is one thing. The inference with Pam here is that one dare not even breath the word ‘God’ or else!! I mean, come on.
Pam said
Thanks for defending my first comment. BLESSINGS!
Pudding said
˙ǝɥɔɐ ɥɔǝu ɐ ɟo llǝɥ ǝuo ǝʌɐɥ snld lɐnʇıɹıds ǝɹoɯ ǝq llıʍ noʎ spɹɐʍʞɔɐssɐq puɐ uʍop ǝpısdn ʇxǝʇ pɐǝɹ uɐɔ noʎ ɟI
Rose from Kentucky said
I’m not sure what a nech ache is, but I’m sure enough garlic will cure it…
Rose from Kentucky said
I do feel more spiritual though; standing on my head at the computer always has that affect on me. Perhaps the inevitable crash that accompanies it rearranges my paradigm enough to shake my normalcy bias.
Eric W. said
“Eric, ‘popping off’ is one thing. The inference with Pam here is that one dare not even breath the word ‘God’ or else!! I mean, come on. ”
Which I would disagree with that if that’s what was intended.
Hmmm… Pam, wanna help us out with that so no one misunderstands/misconstrues anything?
Pudding: How’d you do that?!
LookingUp said
So, was it defended? I’m not sure. I had the same initial response as Fit had, that you meant that the only true name of God is Yahweh. Did we misunderstand?
Pam said
My POINT was……that a TRUE Aramaic translation would NOT substitute the Aramaic name for our Father, Yahuweh (correct spelling) for any other title……especially “God”. Most often it will be in script form.
By the way…..you will find a lot of different names for our creator. Most all come from the Greek & Romans. Most are Pagan as well. Just do a study on the words origin & meaning.
Even if we don’t agree with others comments we MUST play nicely!
Pudding said
Rose, I smell you girl, you caught my bad spelling! It should be “neck ache”.. I use fresh minced garlic bought in a jar potent stuff I tell you what and my house smells like an Italian brothel. Thanks for the tip I need a garlic booster tonight.
Rose said: “I do feel more spiritual though; standing on my head at the computer always has that affect on me. Perhaps the inevitable crash that accompanies it rearranges my paradigm enough to shake my normalcy bias.”
Exactly, I feel the same way.
nomemoleste said
Jesus is just alright with me. Y’shua, Yahshua, Yeshua also.
“http://www.scribd.com/doc/26865869/What-is-His-Name-by-Oneil-McQuick” (for reconciliation)
“http://youtu.be/kpKAQacDkFo” (The Byrds)
“http://youtu.be/JEvy8mROAj0″ (The Doobie Brothers)
Hallelu-YAH!
Pudding said
Eric, ¿pooʍ ʞɔnɥɔ plnoɔ ʞɔnɥɔpooʍ ɐ ɟI ˙ʞɔnɥɔ ʞɔnɥɔpooʍ ɐ plnoʍ pooʍ ɥɔnɯ ʍoH
I found it (flip text converter) here: “http://hinh.tv/flip-text.html#.UPGhtSc0WSo”
p.s. ¡ɔılɹɐƃ ɥɔnɯ os ƃuıʇɐǝ dOʇS ǝsoɹ
Rose from Kentucky said
˙˙˙ǝɹɐ noʎ ɹoʌɐlɟ ʇɐɥʍ ʍouʞ I ‘ƃuıppnd
LookingUp said
I still don’t get it, Pam. My Hebrew scriptures have a few different names of God, and they were recorded pre-Greek. No one knows the exact spelling of Yahweh. because the vowels are not included in the original Hebrew manuscripts. There are Jewish traditions that say that the original complete spelling has 26 letters.
MY point is that there is nothing magical about using Yahweh. If there was, millennium of believers who thought they were calling on the “right” name missed everything, because they didn’t have a clue about the name “יהוה”.
Pudding said
Rose! Be a good girl now..good good girllll..
Ok, so what flavor be I pray tell?
ps. Nome, Jesus is just alright with me, Jesus is just alright I don’t care what they may say… Excellent song brings back memories and I agree!
LookingUp said
OK, y’all. PALEEAASE quit writing upside down. I don’t want to miss any of your pearls of wisdom, but I have a bad neck, and having to turn my monitor upside down is a real pain – literally.
Rose from Kentucky said
˙sʞɔıʇs ǝslǝ ƃuıɥʇou ˙ƃuıppnd ‘ƃuıppnd pǝɹoʌɐlɟ-ǝǝɟɟoɔ ɐ ǝɹɐ noʎ ˙ǝǝɟɟOϽ ɟo spɐolʞɔnɹʇ puɐ suollɐƃ puɐ sdnɔ ɟo dıɹp ‘dıɹp ‘dıɹp ʇuɐʇsuoɔ ǝɥʇ ʎq uǝppıɹɹǝʌo uǝǝq sɐɥ ɹoʌɐlɟ ʎɹǝʌǝ
‘ɥɔunɹɔ ƃuɐʇnƃuɐɹo opɐɔoʌɐ
ɹo ‘ɹǝƃɹnq uʍop ǝpısdn ǝlddɐǝuıd
ɹo ‘ǝʞɐɔǝƃuods ıʇʇǝɥƃɐds uooɹɐɔɐɯ
˙˙˙ sɐ ǝɟıl ɹnoʎ pǝʇɹɐʇs noʎ ɹǝɥʇǝɥʍ
“¡uʍouʞ ǝʌɐɥ plnoɥs I” ‘ɯıɐlɔxǝ puɐ pɐǝɥǝɹoɟ sıɥ dɐls llıʍ sıɥʇ spɐǝɹ oɥʍ ǝuoʎɹǝʌǝ ˙ƃuıʞɔoɥs ǝq ʇou llıʍ sıɥʇ ‘ʎɹɹoʍ ʇ,uop
Rose from Kentucky said
Sorry, LookingUp, I was having an obsessive-compulsive moment with a new toy…
nomemoleste said
(ǝǝɟɟoɔ ɟo dnɔ ɐ ǝʞıl sı ǝɟıl) “http://youtu.be/U3NgzQ9Pcsg” :ʎɐs ǝɯos ʇnq ‘ǝɯ ɹoɟ ɟɐɔǝp ǝq ɐʇʇoƃ
LookingUp said
Gosh, Hashnash, I didn’t realize the Torah was written in Aramaic.
Rose from Kentucky said
Nome, I love that! So true.
Pudding said
Rose, Ahh how sweet I am a coffee pudding..when I grow up I wanna be a coffee mocha pudding just like my daddy :þ BTW I am on my 7th cup for today so far, ya baby! Whose your daddy?
Now that you have been empowered in the art of upsidedown backwards writing you can further test your skills on new age websites
For example by writing upsidedown: Opening conduit.. Maitreya was defeated at the cross by the son of God Jesus Christ sell your all your crystals and buy a bible, thank you for your attention… closing conduit…bloop
Nome, I liked the vid, mamma always said life is like a cup of coffee and that is all I have to say about that.
Mrs M said
Darla,
I had a similar experience yesterday, but I wasn’t as outraged it was on Anderson Cooper. He was talking about Sandy Hook and all the conspiracies surrounding it, and made it all sound like people who question the story they put out there as news as nutters! I’m sure if you google it with yesterdays date you’ll find it. The adversary sure is a crafty one! One final note: I must say I think that there are some far out ideas about the children being actors. I think there were actual deaths.
Mrs M said
“https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYYtPOR1EwQ”
Check it out.
Darla H. said
After yesterday…it might just send me over the deep ed
I cannot get this out of my mind which means if this doesn’t lift…..I HAVE to deal with this however HE wants me to……When I think about it …UGH! It makes me so mad…..I am writing Mr. Phil an email also…….once I calm down about it …IF I CAN!!!!
Darla H. said
deep end is what I meant
Mariel Strauss said
This goes to show you how confused are our times! We get SO much information (such as about the Lamsa Bible) and then we have to discern which part of it is right. And our poor little human brains are no match for God’s brain. So, come, Holy Spirit!
But it is better to live in a time of confused thought than in a time of total ignorance. At least we have a few sparks of God’s wisdom. May we get lots more of it!
James said
Thank you for sharing the truth. Many people would be too embarrassed to run a retraction. From what you said it sounded believable for sure. The devil is very cunning and can deceive everyone on something…
Claudia said
A Christian stands on truth, and when they learn of a mistake, always claim it. If people are too embarrassed to make a retraction, and prefer the dark, than I would have to question who they are really following, the dark one, or themselves. Either one is not acceptable.
James said
I have to agree with you on that…
Kristen said
Thank you for that correction
Ant Writes said
While I don’t believe the KJV is infallible, I usually trust the Septuagint (LXX) more than the Hebrew because it’s older and that’s what Jesus and the disciples used. I use as many xlations as possible when I do Bible study. I’ll even use the Message wen making a sermon, because after all, my sermon is a paraphrase anyway.
fitpro58 said
Good grief the Mess-age perversion. You couldn’t find a more polluted bible out there. And as a ‘pastor’ I’m assuming?, shame on you for not researching more about where your so-called older manuscripts originate and acknowledging how the word has been hacked! How embarrassing for you and unfortunate for your congregants. How entertaining it must be to hear the ‘babel’ from your church when everyone is instructed to go to a certain passage and read along.
Ant Writes said
That’s just silly. When you are looking to reword a verse in another way, it can be a very versatile tool.
fitpro58 said
So Ant..how silly is adding to or subtracting from the word of God (per Rev 22:18,19) ?? And don’t give me your private interpretation (also forbidden in the word). Please don’t behave as a sheep here when your acting as a wolf. Could ad a few ‘woe unto yous’ here.
Ant Writes said
I’ll give you a quick example. Gal 4:3
kjv Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world:
message When we were minors, we were just like slaves ordered around, with no say in the conduct of our own lives.
What’s wrong wih me using the msg paraphrase in a sermon when I say “We were just like kis being bossed around by our elders”.
You don’t use the message as your main study bible of course, but it and other translation are great tools in your biblical arsenal.
Eric W. said
“That’s just silly. When you are looking to reword a verse in another way, it can be a very versatile tool.”
What criteria is being used to ‘reword a verse’ ? What do you mean by this?
Ant Writes said
You’re misunderstanding completely. Certain verses in the MSG can be used to expand the meaning. If we never wanted the meaning expanded, we wouldn’t listen to sermons or read commentaries.
Ant Writes said
“adding to or subtracting from the word of God”. By your logic it should only be read in Greek, That verse simply means not to add or subtract the meaning, which is what Lamsa did.
Eric W. said
I can bring a number of very specific examples here of what’s wrong with The Message and Eugene Peterson himself in terms of theology and doctrine. Nothing personal, either.
It’s garbage and should be avoided. It’s not even a paraphrase.
If you want a decent paraphrase take the Living Bible for a spin if you must but avoid trash like The Message at all costs.
I know that may put me at odds with some here. That’s just too bad. I make no apology for it.
I can make my case on demand if need be.
LookingUp said
No, Ant, that was not what Lamsa did. He came at his interpretation through a mindset based on the occult and incorporated the occult into the pure Word. LA gave some good examples, but there are many other objections easily available online. I was almost ready to give you the benefit of the doubt on The Message, but your defense of Lamsa indicates to me that you may have a problem with discernment after all.
Ant Writes said
Wait, I didn’t defend Lamsa!!!
fitpro58 said
But you defend the Mess-age..which is likely worse. Where’s the sanity??
Ant Writes said
I said it was a good as a weapon in your bible study arsenal.
Eric W. said
“I said it was a good as a weapon in your bible study arsenal.
No it’s not and I’ve made my case below.
LookingUp said
Then I misunderstood. I apologize.
Ant Writes said
Not a problem
Claudia said
I’ll make a wager that if the Holy Spirit knows a person is sincere in their love for Christ (in the same manner as a one year old child loves his Father, not capable of knowing who his Father really is), He will bring us through no matter what Bible we are reading, as long as the Gospel story regarding Jesus Christ is recorded correctly. He is our Lamb, we are lost without Him. He gave us the Holy Spirit. He lives, and He returns, and He will make all things better, and when we next see Him we will be like Him. It is the LAMB part that we have to understand here on earth.
Here we go again, man’s wars, man thinking his knowledge and understanding is better than God’s. Truth be told, the Gospel message and salvation can be communicated verbally, with or without the Bible. It is a heart thing. God sees the heart. He knows who puts all their trust in Him for every purpose under earth and for those things we don’t understand that are not yet here. He knows who looks towards man’s understandings and who looks towards Him.
All the garbage of doctrine beyond the fact that Jesus is our only Doorway to Restoration, will all fall off when we next see Him and are given white garments from Him. All of our garments are dirty with error as we walk on this earth.
It is these very things, that God knew would happen with His message, that necessitate the Mellinnium Reign of Christ with us. So many have rejected the Message of Christ because of man’s wars on who knows best. None of us know best!
LookingUp said
Sound doctrine is not garbage. We are told to study to have it:
1 Timothy 1:3 As I urged you when I went into Macedonia, stay there in Ephesus so that you may command certain people not to teach false DOCTRINES any longer
1 Timothy 1:9-10 We also know that the law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, 10 for the sexually immoral, for those practicing homosexuality, for slave traders and liars and perjurers—and for whatever else is contrary to the sound DOCTRINE.
1 Timothy 4:16 Watch your life and DOCTRINE closely. Persevere in them, because if you do, you will save both yourself and your hearers.
2 Timothy 4:3 For the time will come when people will not put up with sound DOCTRINE. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.
Titus 1:9 He must hold firmly to the trustworthy message as it has been taught, so that he can encourage others by sound DOCTRINE and refute those who oppose it.
Titus 2:1 You, however, must teach what is appropriate to sound DOCTRINE.
If the gospel was all God was concerned about, He would have stopped at John.
Claudia said
Every time they are referring to “Doctrine” in the Bible it is referring to the Salvation that comes through Christ and that He is the Doorway. Yes, I paraphrased that, but you all know what I mean. It is making reference that there is not a wooden idol, a ritual, a buddha, a golden idol, an ancestor, an angel, or anything else that will save you. None of the other stuff in the Bible is salvational, tho it helps us in our walk on earth. Nothing else in the Bible will get us out of this earthly condition, except our Faith in Jesus Christ the LAMB. The LAMB is the doctrine to which they refer. They are not refering to all the stuff that is defined by books written by man, and sermons preached by ministers as being doctrine. All else is works, and they won’t save you.
Paul said a woman should be covered in church, and should not talk. That has been turned into doctrine by some according to their understandings of it. We are encouraged not to give over to drunkedness in the Bible…and some churches have created doctrine over that and made taking a drink of wine a sin. Which of course makes my Jesus a sinner….for His first miracle was turning water to wine, and He would have a drink with sinners. Now, lets take a look at what doctrine the churches have turned the Sabbath into! There are so many examples of what the people of this time think is “doctrine” that has nothing to do with what those passges were speaking about. The misunderstandings of those very passages are what started the war in the churches which turns good people away, thinking it is all foolishness.
When you are instilled with the Love of Christ you will naturally be generous and loving, truthful and kind. But….if you have to force yourself to be that way…..than it is works, and you might as well receive a wage, because you won’t receive Salvation by your works.
LookingUp said
“Doctrine (from Latin: doctrina) is a codification of beliefs or a body of teachings or instructions, taught principles or positions, as the body of teachings in a branch of knowledge or belief system. Often doctrine specifically connotes a corpus of religious dogma as it is promulgated by a church, but not necessarily.”
The Greek word for doctrine – teaching, instruction – does not limit it to salvation. 1 Timothy 1:9-10 isn’t about salvation. Most of the instruction we get in the NT is about what happens AFTER salvation – If the only “doctrine” we needed was salvation, then the minute we believed in Christ, we would be “instilled with the Love of Christ” and never sin again. That’s not how it happens for most of us. Was Paul instilled with the love of Christ? Yes, but according to Romans 7, he still lived fighting the natural inclinations of his flesh. So do we, so we were given instructions – doctrine – on how to walk it out and live the rest of our lives being conformed to the image of Christ and what that means.. Just because some people make a doctrine out of a cultural practice – FASLE doctrine – doesn’t negate the importance of having a correct understanding of what the Bible teaches.
Israel is a doctrine. The tribulation is a doctrine. The Millennium is a doctrine. Just a few examples of “non-salvation” doctrine.
Darla H. said
Ant..I think understood your point and I think some just missed what you were trying to say. (maybe)_..I absolutely did not like “The Living Bible”…I never used it at all…then one day the Lord specifically put me in that book to read about something and just the way it was worded..it struck me like I had never been struck before for that particular story because of the way it read……Is this kind of what you are speaking of?
Ant Writes said
That’s it exactly! I felt the same way about The Living Bible in fact. Then I was staying with friend who I did ministry with a couple of months ago and he had a pocket version of it on his bookshelf that looked like a KJV I had..I started reading Isaiah 1-10 that night in that Bible. I saw things I never have. Is it replacing my main translation? No! But there’s nothing wrong with with getting out of the drudgery at times. (If you’ve never experiecned biblical dryness, you’re not reading it!)
Eric W. said
2 Timothy 4:3
Right on, LookingUp.
Darla H. said
Cool…OK..I get it……I have been there so I was trying to say it the best way I knew how…:)
Krazy Kat Lady said
Hi Ant,
I like the NKJV, and have been reading it since it came out. I actually got saved by reading the Good News Bible. Please don’t laugh. God opened my eyes about my sins and then He showed me my need to be born again. After crying and soobing for an hour. I gave my life to Jesus, never been the same. Praise God.
Mariel Strauss said
When reading and quoting the Bible, it is of primary importance to ask the Holy Spirit for guidance. I do this and I believe the Spirit has guided me in amazing ways to find truth for my life. And sometimes the truth is not pleasant–that is, sometimes He tells me I must go through the Shadows, or that “we” must do so, before His amazing Coming. And so guidance from the Holy Spirit does not mean you will always know how to proceed, but it will tell you what the end will be, and it is good. We live in partial ignorance, even as the Jews live in partial blindness, so we must trust Him to guide.
I read primarily KJV but know that other translations have cleared up some poor translations in KJV. Read the history of King James. He was a very interesting man, a Bible scholar from childhood (forced on him by his tutors). He really tried to do his best concerning the making of Bible for all English-speaking people in his land.
He worked hard to stop the suppression of religious “heretics”, in an age when disagreeing with the authorities meant execution. He also had the same neuro deficit I have, which I admit with trepidation, as it is not something to look at casually.
Eric W. said
” He also had the same neuro deficit I have, which I admit with trepidation, as it is not something to look at casually.”
King James didn’t do the work all by himself.
nomemoleste said
You may find this quite interesting Mariel: “http://goo.gl/l95iL”
re: “The nature of King James VI/I’s medical conditions”
Mariel Strauss said
Eric, I know King James had a very large committee to write the translation. He wanted as much input as possible and especially from the various sects, to make the Bible as universal as possible.
Nomemoleste, thanks for the link. I’ll read it, but I think I have read most of the things related to James’ condition. He had Porphyria, and is the best documented royal in the Stuart line who had it, that is, his diagnosis is widely accepted. Others were Mary Queen of Scots, Queen Anne, Prince William of Gloucester. Other royals today probably have it but they know better how to deal with it. I’ll read that, however–he might have had other problems as well. thanks Nome
Mariel Strauss said
Response further to Nome: I read the fascinating suppositions that King James had Lesch-Nyhan syndrome. It is possible he had this too, but his recorded medical signs are typical of Porphyria. I have another disease too, which is genetic but not inherited, that I got through a mutation about eight years ago, Polycythemia Vera. The Porph makes it impossible for me to take the chemos for PV, so I have to go periodically to Mayo for radiation, which has no side effects, to lower my platelet count. Thus I have two rare blood diseases. James may have had more than one. He came from a very inbred background, and unfortunately my Scots ancestors were similarly grossly inbred. I am probably a distant cousin of James.
But that’s way back there, so I don’t know how the gene got from there to here–another example of how little we know. I know a lot about Porphyria from 17 years of study since diagnosis.
Ant Writes said
That is fascinating , Mariel
LookingUp said
God can even use crazy people in a big way. I’m encouraged.
Eric W. said
Me, too!
Shoot, Pudding ought to be ecstatic!
Love ya, bro!
Pudding said
I resemble that remark!
Actually it did make me ecstatic. Ha!
Love you too bubba! :þ
Julia said
Hello L A I immediately praised OUR FATHER in heaven that he would show you the difference and he has!!!!!! Just my preference,but I too have found the same thing in other bibles and ONLY stay with the King James Version.Revelation 22 V 18 & 19 God who made man knew ahead of time what he would do.God Bless You for this retraction.
Julia
John Michael said
LA is F.A.T. Faithful, Available and Teachable. He is faithful to God and His word, he is available to listen to different points of view and he is most certainly teachable in the sense that he is always learning and will submit to correction if necessary. In my youth as a follower I was fooled by various teachers and as I grew in my faith I learned to discern what and who I read and listened to.
I listened to LA teach at the prophecy conference and sat next to him for three days while Doug Hamp taught and watched him learn just like me. He is a humble man who is washed in the blood of the Lamb and I don’t question his motives or his sincerity.
I follow no man without verification from the word of God and with that said, I’d go to war for Lynn Marzulli. He wants to get it right, not some of the time, but every time.
Today’s blog is a good example of that. If you’re not holding him up in prayer daily, I encourage you to do so..
Shalom and Maranatha
Eric W. said
Couldn’t agree more.
Pudding said
John, Well said!
Fat? …he’s not heavy he’s my brother….
Eric W. said
Too much “R&R”?
Elaine said
John Michael! DITTO for me! I am so happy to have a teacher who is able to say, “Oops” over one who is so full of themselves that they leave no room for God to teach him!!! Gonna hum a Randy Newman song…….Ooooh, I love L.A.!
Pudding said
Eric W. said
You caught it.
Gina Nestor said
I agree, John Michael. L.A. is a humble follower of Jesus. He does not look down on anyone. He will admit if he doesn’t know something or is wrong. He loves the Lord and is an avid researcher and knows the word. I pray for him, his wife and daughters daily and I encourage all of you to lift up this watchman. If anyone has a chance to see L.A.’s 6 DVD Lecture Series, I recommend it highly. It will take you from the beginning through many areas of deception, ufology, false teaching, etc. His Nephilim Mounds Conference DVDs from this past September will be ready soon. I can hardly wait and I was at that conference.
Claudia said
I sensed the same thing about him when I discovered him a while back. The earth is better for him.
Eric W. said
Sorry I have to respond to this. I can’t sit by silently and abide by this.
Ant Writes wrote: “I said it was a good as a weapon in your bible study arsenal.” in regards to The Message by Eugene Peterson.
No, it’s not and I’m going to prove it and show it to you and everyone else.
“http://www.bible-researcher.com/themessage.html”
“http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Bible/the_message.htm”
“http://fortheloveofhistruth.com/2011/10/07/why-is-the-message-bible-not-safe/”
“http://dtoscott.wordpress.com/2010/08/08/the-message-the-bible-in-heretical-language-part-2/”
Blogs are blogs. I get that. Might want to skim some of it for the specific comparisons.
I’ll put some here, too.
Colossians 2:10
KJV – “And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:”
THE MESSAGE – “You don’t need a telescope, a microscope, or a horoscope to realize the fullness of Christ, and the emptiness of the universe without him…”
Telescope, microscope, or HOROSCOPE?
Philippians 2:12
KJV – “Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.”
THE MESSAGE – “Be energetic in your life of salvation, reverent and sensitive before God. That energy is God’s energy, an energy deep within you, God himself willing and working at what will give him the most pleasure.”
Psycho-babble “energy” talk.
Matthew 9:34
KJV – “But the Pharisees said, He casteth out devils through the prince of the devils.”
THE MESSAGE – “The Pharisees were left sputtering, ‘Hocus Pocus. It’s nothing but Hocus Pocus.’”
Really?
Matt. 11:28-30
KJV – “Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.”
THE MESSAGE – “Are you tired? Worn out? Burned out on religion? Come to me. Get away with me and you’ll recover your life. I’ll show you how to take a real rest. Walk with me and work with me — watch how I do it. Learn the unforced rhythms of grace. I won’t lay anything heavy or ill-fitting on you.”
Rhythms of grace… I’m trying to read into this too much but come on.
I love this one:
John 1:18
KJV – “No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.”
THE MESSAGE – “No one has ever seen God, not so much of a glimpse. This one-of-a-kind God-expression, who exists at the very heart of the Father, has made him plain as day.”
WOW! So Jesus, the only begotten Son has now become…”this one-of-a-kind God-expression”!
Are you kidding?
John 3:5
KJV – “Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.”
THE MESSAGE – “Jesus said, You’re not listening. Let me say it again. Unless a person submits to this original creation–the ‘wind hovering over the water’ creation, the invisible moving the visible, a baptism into a new life–it’s not possible to enter God’s kingdom.”
New Age much?
Acts 8:20
KJV – “But Peter said unto him, Thy money perish with thee…”
THE MESSAGE – “Peter said, ‘To (deleted by No Nicolaitans!) with your money!’”
Huh?
1 Corinthians 13:12-13
KJV – “For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.”
THE MESSAGE – “We don’t yet see things clearly. We’re squinting in a fog, peering through a mist. But it won’t be long before the weather clears, and the sun shines bright! … Trust steadily in God, hope unswervingly, love extravagantly. And the best of the three is love.”
How does seeing through a glass translate over into “squinting in a fog and peering through a mist? And we are to love extravagantly? I’m sure the Prosperity preachers love that…and they do because they use this piece of garbage almost exclusively. Hmmm…
Matthew 5:8
KJV – “Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.”
THE MESSAGE – “You’re blessed when you get your inside world, your mind and heart, put right. Then you can see God in the outside world.”
What? My “inside world”… more psycho babble?
Matthew 5:14
KJV – “Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.”
THE MESSAGE – “Here’s another way to put it: You’re here to be light, bringing out the God-colors in the world.”
What? What are “God-colors”?
Matthew 5:3
KJV – “Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.”
THE MESSAGE – “You’re blessed when you’re at the end of your rope. With less of you there is more of God and his rule.”
Erf.
I wish I could laugh at some of this but I can’t. It’s deadly damned serious where I sit.
Sadly, there’s more where this came from but I think this should be sufficient for most people to get the idea something isn’t right with The Message or Eugene Peterson’s theology and doctrine.
Ant Writes said
You are assuming I don’t know the gospel One has tobe SELECTIVE. Obviousl, I owuld usd the verses you cherry picked. but look at the verse I did select. I’lll repost my earlier post:
I’ll give you a quick example. Gal 4:3
kjv Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world:
message When we were minors, we were just like slaves ordered around, with no say in the conduct of our own lives.
What’s wrong wih me using the msg paraphrase in a sermon when I say “We were just like kis being bossed around by our elders”.
You don’t use the message as your main study bible of course, but it and other translation are great tools in your biblical arsenal.
Eric W. said
I couldn’t disagree more especially when I know what’s behind EP and some of his doctrine and theology.
Ant Writes said
That’s a guilt by association fallacy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_fallacy
LookingUp said
Good job, Eric. Thanks.
Ant, you may be able to discern the difference and separate God’s truth from the subtle lies and half-truths of The Message, but what about those who uses it because you quote from it? Can they all spot error? Why even take the risk when it is totally unnecessary?
Ant Writes said
They can also quote me. What I say is basically a paraphrase also.
John Michael said
Ant,
As God for discernment concerning the message, its not even a paraphrase in my opinion, its a commentary and should not be used to feed the flock. There is just so much wrong with it. Rick Warren quotes it more than any other in his book the purpose driven life. That should be enough to warn you off of it.
Fitpro58,
I trust the KJV but study with the NASB as it the most close to the original Greek and Hebrew and does not use the old english language exclusively as the KJV. These two versions along with a Strong’s Concordance and your set.
Sadly the text that is used most widely is the NIV and it’s corrupted.
MATTHEW 4:4
But He answered and said, “It is written, ‘MAN SHALL NOT LIVE ON BREAD ALONE, BUT ON EVERY WORD THAT PROCEEDS OUT OF THE MOUTH OF GOD.’ ”
In this verse Jesus quotes Deuteronomy 8:3 to the satan when He was asked to turn stones into bread.
Knowing the word of God comes from reading our bibles on a regular basis. We seldom deny ourselves food yet will go without the word of God and then we become biblically malnourished. As with food for the body we should eat good food and so it is with the text that we read.
You don’t have to read the bible from cover to cover without putting it down, but try to read something everyday and see your faith grow. ROMANS 10:17 So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.
Some people say that its boring or that they don’t understand it, the bible is historical and instructional. As LA likes to say it’s ‘the guide book to the supernatural’ and an acronym I learned years ago,B.I.B.L.E. ‘Believers Instructions Before Leaving Earth.’
Pick up your bible today and read something, challenge yourself to read it through, take your time and ask God to open up His word to you.
Keep looking up, Michael
Eric W. said
Amen. Be Bereans.
Not trying to bang anyone’s head through a wall. 
LookingUp said
That’s true, Ant, they can. But their exposure to you is limited and controlled. Not the case if they choose to do their own Bible reading or study out of TM. Again, why even take on the responsibility of putting them at risk?
Claudia said
Words have no power if the speaker does not understand the words, and the heart behind the words. If it is just the words that matter, one might as well be a parrot, speaking of things that he does not understand.
Even so, the real parrot is wiser than man.
richard said
January 12, 2013 – CHINA – Yesterday, it was reported that China – not currently suffering from any food shortages – is amassing rice stockpiles. This past year, the country mysteriously imported four times the rice over 2011 purchases: United Nations agricultural experts are reporting confusion, after figures show that China imported 2.6 million tons of rice in 2012, substantially more than a four-fold increase over the 575,000 tons imported in 2011. The confusion stems from the fact that there is no obvious reason for vastly increased imports, since there has been no rice shortage in China. The speculation is that Chinese importers are taking advantage of low international prices, but all that means is that China’s own vast supplies of domestically grown rice are being stockpiled. Why would China suddenly be stockpiling millions of tons of rice for no apparent reason? Perhaps it’s related to China’s aggressive military buildup and war preparations in the Pacific and in central Asia. Yesterday’s revelation follows reports over the past several years of the Chinese amassing commodities in warehouses throughout the nation. For example, Reuters reported last year that: At Qingdao Port, home to one of China’s largest iron ore terminals, hundreds of mounds of iron ore, each as tall as a three-storey building, spill over into an area signposted “grains storage” and almost to the street. Further south, some bonded warehouses in Shanghai are using car parks to store swollen copper stockpiles – another unusual phenomenon that bodes ill for global metal prices and raises questions about China’s ability to sustain its economic growth as the rest of the world falters. Several months ago, at least one analyst speculated that a commodities buying spree involving 300,000 tons of metals in another Chinese province was motivated by an attempt to keep local smelters running, thereby ensuring continued tax revenues to government. But that doesn’t explain the rice-buying. What we do know is that the world may be headed – led by the United States – toward a period of significant inflation if sovereign debt crises lead to additional “quantitative easing” and other expansions of the monetary supply. –Joe Miller
Eric W. said
If I’m the Japanese my tail should be twitching, right off the bat. They’ve been having some tense issues out there.
A number of highly suggestive details in this piece.
Mariel Strauss said
Scary story, Richard. Hope it means our blessed hope will be near. The only hope.
Pudding said
I have followed China’s expansion in the minerals market up to the housing collapse, they bought massive quantities of Iron ore and precious metals so much so that in poor economic conditions in the future even the U.S. would have to buy the needed precious metals from China that is required in electronics and the manufacture of high tech equipment including military weaponry. China and Russia have a long term growth plan to own as much resources as possible, meanwhile the rest of the world is asleep in their own bureaucracy.
Claudia said
Way back before 2004 China was buying up lumber and all sorts of resources. I listen to the Chinese TV station, and the RT (Russian station) and the Al Jazzeer (sp) station. It is very interesting to read between the lines, much like you are trying to read your chess apponents future moves from his actions in the present.
I am reminded of the phrase: Be wise as serpents and gentle as doves.
Apostle Paul said
I’ve taken to guessing how many entries on LA’s blog on any given day before someone gets (1) offended (2) pops off with an insult (3) says something without love (4) says something unedifying.
Generally it’s about 5 posts in from the first entry.
Try it…you’ll get disappointed with the quality of “internet conversation” like I do very quickly.
lamarzulli said
Paul – This is why I close the comment section from time to time. Jesus told us: “they will no you are my disciples by the love you have for one another.” We proclaim we are Christians and yet the vituperative remarks would turn pretty much everyone away. God help us!
LookingUp said
Hmmm. I’ve re-read every post today, and can’t find anything offensive, insulting or unloving. Did I miss something?
I’ve read (and been part of
) some conversations that could be construed to be hateful and argumentative. I am and will always be sorry that that’s the way they come across. Passion for the truth tends to be – passionate. Sometimes things are taken with the wrong perspective attaching an attitude that’s not there. How do you type a response to what you believe to be error without someone thinking that’s offensive? In today’s culture, every body is supposed to agree with everyone else, or at least be quiet if they don’t. Tolerance has replaced truth.
Proverbs 27:17 says iron sharpens iron. How do you do that gently? How do you post an alternative interpretation that some person somewhere might not find offensive? Do we stop sharpening? Do we let something that we understand to be non-scriptural go unchallenged knowing that there may be someone out there whose walk could be misdirected by it? If that’s the case, why even have an opportunity to reply to someone’s post? Is it more worrisome to think someone visiting the blog for the first time might be put off by the debates than it is to think someone might follow a lie? Is love only measured by acceptance? Is it part of Satan’s plan to shut down sharing truth by fostering fear of offense?
Just asking.
Eric W. said
Well said, LookingUp.
Everything seems pretty on the level today best I can tell.
Eric W. said
“Paul – This is why I close the comment section from time to time. Jesus told us: “they will no you are my disciples by the love you have for one another.” We proclaim we are Christians and yet the vituperative remarks would turn pretty much everyone away. God help us!”
No question. I take great pains to not be a part of that problem but I’m certainly not perfect, either. If I get caught on the wrong side of that equation, please let me know. Blessings.
Pudding said
Considering the topics here are about “Politics, Prophecy & the Supernatural” in my opinion this is a hard place to be, it is not your normal run of the mill Christian bible study…:lol: Even so we are supposed to be bearing fruit which everyone needs more work on, there is a higher standard to live up we are the wheat not the tares. Moreover we all need correction at various times to maintain sound doctrine among so many opinions. Balancing Love and correction at the same time is a task in itself. And what I mean by love is explained in detail here: 1 Corinthians 13
richard said
Its only gotten worse in the last year really.
Jay said
I am ashamed to admit I have jumped the gun on occasion and sent LA a few “tough” emails. I just wished I had thought more about certain topics instead of flying off the emotional handle. There is a lot of relativism in the church but ultimately we all know it is about knowing our Lord and loving others.
Ant Writes said
I think many if us jump the gun in our Christian walk, you’re just the most outspoken gun jumper
faithfulelect said
alot of vipers… some slither in silently and others attack with one fang relog to another account and attack with that one.
faithfulelect said
this past few months theres been quite a few surly remarks made but its by the same people so no one’s shocked or amazed. Do what quite a few of us do overlook it or skim by it brother. The internet hides their identities which is why i think there are alot of double accounts going on or even more. Perhaps LA you should call out some of these ip’s or warn em away if they start getting repititive with their nastiness and attacks? Nothing like a bit of good old fashioned shame on a doubting heart.
Ally said
We all love each other here. Very much! We quickly come to each others aid in times of distress and sorrow and rejoice together in victory! But just like brothers and sisters in the natural…sometimes w disagree. But come against Jesus or LA and you might fund yourself getting an old fashioned lickin.
I love you guys. You are my church family! I can’t wait to see you all in heaven
Darla H. said
This is for Elaine, Kristen & Moon…
Ok I emailed the woman on Dr. Phil…..
faithfulelect said
tell us what happens sister.
Darla H. said
I will…..I have a lot going on in my spirit about this right now & I will keep you posted….this IS my fellowship place…..
Darla H. said
This I just saw on web:
A team of amateurs has discovered evidence for 42 alien planets, including a Jupiter-size world that could potentially be habitable, by sifting through data from a NASA spacecraft.
Forty volunteers with the crowd-sourcing Planet Hunters project discovered the new planet candidates, which include 15 potentially habitable worlds and PH2 b, a Jupiter-size planet that the team confirmed to be in the habitable zone of its parent star.
This is the second time Planet Hunters project, which is overseen by Zooniverse, has confirmed a new exoplanet discovery. What’s more, several candidate planets found by the project may be in the habitable zones of their parent stars. These candidates are awaiting confirmation by professional astronomers.
Researchers suggested this bonanza of planets in the so-called Goldilocks zone around a star, a habitable zone in which conditions are liquid water to exist on a planet’s surface and potentially supportlife, could mean there is a “traffic jam” of worlds where life could exist, project officials said.
“These are planet candidates that slipped through the net, being missed by professional astronomers and rescued by volunteers in front of their web browsers,” said the University of Oxford’s Chris Lintott, who helms the Zooniverse, in a statement. “It’s remarkable to think that absolutely anyone can discover a planet.”
More to this story too much to post
Darla H. said
From above post: traffic jam? Now we all can apply to be a planetary traffic cop…..New position opening up for the unemployed
Gary said
Thanks L.A. for clarifying. Now we know what NOT to trust. God Bless!
Corey said
In response to Barbara’s above post at the beginning of page… Hope ya don’t take this the wrong way but if you are thinking that someone can have their name erased from the book of life by misquoting or intentionally misquoting or adding to or taking away what the book of Revelation says, I would have to respectfully disagree. As grievious as a sin as it would be to intentionally add something to or take something away from what it says, it would not merit one losing their salvation. I understand that it says that one can have their name erased but it is not talking about a saved person. One only has their name erased from the book of life if their name is not written in the “Lamb’s book of life”. The “book of Life” has the name of every person ever born past, present and future. If your name is not written in the “Lamb’s book of Life”, on that day of Judgment it will be erased from the “Book of Life”. Their is an allusion to what the “Book of Life” is in the old Testament somewhere (don’t know which book of old testament that is… don’t remember). But it has to do with you being a live human being on earth. You have to remember that their are different books mentioned in scripture. The “book of Life” and the “Lamb’s book of Life” are two different books. If one could be saved and then lose their salvation for such an infraction of any kind, then we have a serious contradiction in scripture and the bible could not be trusted. Sorry but… this subject matter is a touchy one for me because the Lord dealt with me very vigorously about this subject when I first got saved because I had a fear of losing my salvation and going to Hell. The books of Life was one area that I was set straight on. That passage of scripture kinda disturbed me a bit until I started studying what these various books in scripture meant and what they were talking about. One thing I know for sure is that one cannot lose their salvation. If one could… then the blood of Christ could not be trusted to secure anyone’s salvation and we’re all in BIG trouble. Then you would have to conclude that God made a massive mistake. And if God made a mistake, then this God is not really God. You could then take your bible and toss it in the garbage and just go on ahead and get high and drunk and anything else you want to do because our faith would be in vain.
Corey said
And you could also look forward to stepping into a great nothingness when you die but only you wouldn’t even experience what nothingness would be like because experiencing nothingness would be somethingness… which means that you still would exist somehow but…. and then…. whatever…. my head is gonna explode now.
Ally said
Ok. So this would mean my two daughters who no longer believe, but used to really believe, are going to make it to heaven? I can never figure out if that is true or false and belive me, I have looked for that answer a long time.
Darla H. said
I think it did
Darla H. said
Bring them in in the ways of the Lord and they WILL RETURN …isn’t that what the words says?
Corey said
Darla H. said
bring them UP in the ways is what I meant
Darla H. said
Good stuff here Corey …. I am going to dive into this one….the two different books….I will get back on this one…..give me a few days
Darla H. said
I am tired too…so I might have different opinion after I wake….my head exploded too
Darla H. said
I know Moses was asking God not to take name from Book of Life? I cannot remember right now…..
Darla H. said
I believed the one way first where “Once saved always saved”…then I saw too many times about the “ERASER”……Now I am questioning it myself…..Might be good for a few of us to jump in and reason together….REASON…night bite our own heads off…ya know iron sharpening iron?
Darla H. said
not bite heads off…is what I meant…..tired
Corey said
Ally… If your two daughters who were really saved no longer believed then that would mean that she was not really saved to begin with. She didn’t really “believe” to begin with. Remember what scripture says… (paraphrasing) If they go out from among us then they were not really of us. It would mean that they only had a head knowledge of Jesus. They really didn’t receive him into their heart. Tragically, that is where alot of “christians” are today who sit in church. (Not talking about your daughters of course) If the bible wasn’t true and couldn’t be trusted then you couldn’t even say that there would be a heaven for sure. Alright… my left frontal lobe just broke down from the mental anguish of it all.
Darla H. said
your statement:
“And if God made a mistake, then this God is not really God.”
Here is one to make your head explode: In the book of Hebrew it states that if God had not found fault with the first covenant there would have been no need for the second one…….He was the one who designed that first covenant and He found fault with it? EXPLODED YET?
Corey said
Darla… I think you will find it to be a rewarding study once you get into it. I found it gave me a tremendous peace of mind because all those other scriptures that seemingly say you could possibly lose your salvation suddenly fall into place and their true meaning comes forth.
Darla H. said
Corey….I was a backslider once… that does not mean I was not saved? Per you reply to ally
Darla H. said
Now we are both just going to have to have a lobotomy…
Darla H. said
UUUUHHHHMMMM? Corey? R U responding to my backsliding? I want to hear ?
Darla H. said
I mean I have meant 100′s of people backsliden….they know they are saved but they are in bondages…addictions and all sorts of things but they got saved and had experiences with God……so?
Darla H. said
OMGOSH….Here is a PERFECT example of why we HAVE TO BE OPERATING in the gifts……the gifts are to help right? The body is not operating in them for the most part and in not operating in them we have many who are blacksliden because these gifts are for healing and delivering also…thus we have addictions, perversions ect. ( backsliders)…. PERFECT EXAMPLE OF WJY WE NEED THE GIFTS!!!!
Corey said
Darla… If your head is still in tact, you can chew on this piece of cud: The first covenant God made was an imperfect one. God already knew that. He was showing humanity (through ancient Israel) that the law cannot be maintained by fallen man. God gave the law (Ten Commandments) to show them that they couldn’t be righteous in God’s eyes. God never gave the law for man to follow it in order to secure their salvation and be in right standing with him. God wanted them to acknowledge this to begin with. But man in his fallen nature decided to tell God that they would indeed follow it. Remember Moses before he ascended the mountain (Mt. Sinai) said in his heart… (All that the Lord has commanded us to do we will do.) When he came down from the mountain, the people were already breaking the commandments. The old testament animal sacrifices were all just a picture of the perfect sacrifice that God would make in the future through Jesus. It was that faith that ensured their right standing with God. Their participating in the animal sacrifices before the Lord ensured their right standing with him for a whole year under Old Testament Law. The blood of the animals was just symbology of a perfect sacrifice that was yet to come. It was their faith in that that made them acceptable before the Lord for a whole year until the next year. That’s pretty much a rough draft. Not perfect but… it is late at night and I’m not thinking 100% right now myself. A book you could look at is “Vanished Into Thin Air” by Hal Lindsey. I Think he mentions something about that whole concept in the beginning of the book. Also, you might want to look at “Revelation Revealed” by Tim LaHaye where he talks about the “Book of Life” and the “Lamb’s book of Life”. Hope that helps.
Corey said
Darla…In response to your backsliding in your past. Yes… that is exactly what that means. You were saved the whole time. Your mind and your emotions were telling you that you weren’t. God does not secure our salvation with our minds and emotions. They change from day to day. It’s what Christ has already accomplished in Heaven before the foundation of the world. I have a bible right near me here at work so I’ll look some scriptures up to give to you cause I don’t know them by heart but they are talking about this whole concept of eternal security. If you hold on… I’ll get back to you. If you’ve gone to bed well… we’ll pick this conversation up another day. D:
Darla H. said
Corey ..per your 1st response….YES i knew all that I wanted to throw that out there to you to see what you would say……HAHA……:) Yes I knew what you stated already…:)
Darla H. said
I am here..I am going to reply ..give me moment too
Darla H. said
My point is how can you tell ALLY they were not really saved? They might just be backsliden?
Darla H. said
Many people think others are rejecting God but really they are not they are just backsliden?
Darla H. said
People backslide because after salvation there should be true discipleship and true gift working to bring a person through their ‘YUCK” from the past. Unfortunately there is literally no discipleship in the body anymore and we DO NOT walk in the gifts like we should so we have a huge majority of believers backsliden and few overcomers…..
Corey said
Darla… You sly one you!:D
Corey said
D:
Darla H. said
Your last comment? I am not getting it? R U being sarcastic of am not just not getting it or did you just get my point?
Darla H. said
ok i think we are on the same page
Corey said
Alright! … How come my smile face thing won’t work huh? Stupid! Rotten! Blasted!
Darla H. said
LOL
Darla H. said
I have more fun on this late at night
LOL
Corey said
Darla… No… I wasn’t being sarcastic. I got your point. It’s just that my smile face thing won’t work. This is one thing I don’t find too enjoyable when the spirit in which you say something doesn’t come across when you are blogging on an internet site. It kinda gets lost in translation unless you say everything just so Lol! I was just ribbing you with my elbow with that sly one comment.
Darla H. said
OK LOL….LOL
Darla H. said
Well you see that is it…you cannot rib a woman because we are made from one..you have to use different analogy :0
Darla H. said
Darla H. said
when ribbing we think it is sarcasm
Darla H. said
I know you are trying to smile right now aren’t you?
Corey said
That sure opens up a can of ribs… I mean… worms. How come women have one more rib than a Man does? Hmmmm…. Or is it the other way around? I forget. Must have something to do with that very thing huh? Man has a missing rib because the woman took it! I mean… God gave it to her. There must be some kind of deep meaning in that somewhere I know because God doesn’t just do things haphazard. There’s meaning and purpose in everything he did and does. I might look into that one myself.
Corey said
I am trying to smile right now but my computer isn’t letting me. Just imagine in your mind that I’m smiling in everything I say on here and nothing will get lost in translation. K? Lol!
Corey said
I once saw a book in the book store “Tattered Cover” out here in Denver. It was titled “All the things that Men instinctively know about Women”. I opened it up and every page in the book was blank. There was also one titled “Everything Women instinctively Know about Men” and the same thing inside presumably. Lol!
Darla H. said
We were made from the rib..not from the head to be above or not from the foot to be below but from the rib to be side by side and equal to him but also under his arm of protection…
Darla H. said
I need to read that book
Darla H. said
I Know I could comprehend it
Darla H. said
I need to write a book like that
save on ink
Corey said
There you are Darla! Thought you disappeared. The funny thing is I bet the author made some money on it too. Didn’t have to put work into or nothing. I heard John Hagee mention it one time in a joke he told before one of his sermons and I bet people went out and bought it. So Darla… Ever been baptized with the Holy Spirit? I mean with speaking with tongues. I did in 1997 when I first got saved. I must tell you that I vigorously pursued it until it finally happened one day. I was told by a certain person that I had to have it otherwise I wasn’t really saved. I found out later that wasn’t the case but at the same time I’m glad I thought that because it caused me to not let go of it until I had a supernatural encounter with God that otherwise I wouldn’t not have gotten to experience.
Darla H. said
Ya know Core….I have literally walked in every gift but THAT one…I think when it happens to me it will be huge….I have been one of those people hauled off into the back room to try to get it…stayed after church forever with every Tom..D..and Harry laying hand on me trying to recieve it….I have no idea what it up with it…..you can be in agreement for me to receive it….
Corey said
You forgot one word… GOOD! I know what you mean. I have to go out of the blog to the original page and then back in to see the new replies and comments posted for some reason. Must be some kind of a glitch on the web site itself. I thought it was just my computer or something but now I see that it is not. Say Hi to Poo for me. What kind of Dog is he?
Darla H. said
OMGOSH LOL LOL I took my dog for a poo her name is Darby and she is a beautiful Pitbuil…I am LOL ing right now
Corey said
Lol… That’s too funny! You took your dog to…. Lol! And that’s not his name…. Lol! I guess you and I are the only two left awake! By the way… I’ll be in agreement with you to receive that baptism gift. Father,.. right now in the name of Jesus I ask that you send your spirit upon Darla to receive the gift of speaking with other tongues. Spirit of the living God, I stand in agreement with Darla that you baptize her with fire with the evidence of speaking in tongues… to do so just as you did for me in 1997, In Jesus name… Amen.
There…. it will be done. Just walk in expectance that he will do it for you. I would advise you Darla in your private time to just praise God for who he is and what he has done in his creation. I can tell you that is what I did when I got that Holy Spirit baptism. I stood looking at God’s creation when I was outside one night… looking at the stars and the trees and everything else and I just marveled at everything. At the same time, I was in expectance in my spirit that he would show himself to me in a very tangible way. And wala! … he sure did when he lifted up my head to the sky and out came that language. I still wonder what that was I said to him.
Darla H. said
I have had so many awesome supernatural experiences with Him ..just not that one yet..I have sat upon my bed at night….been hauled off in the back room of churches all of that…..yet I can lay hands on a man and he comes back from the dead..I don’t get it…..I know God says He will give it to those who ask..I brought people to salvation who received tongues while I just sat there..what is up with that?
Jay said
LA…if you have time answer me in regards to music…what is your favorite scale/mode? I love the Lydian scale myself.
Corey said
Anyone There!?…. Anyone? Anyone? Anyone? Anyone? OK… everybody has gone to bed except me. Must be nice. I can’t right now. I’m at work. Marzulli? Are you there? You workin on another Watchers DVD while having a midnight snack? Darla? You there? Where’d everybody Go HUH?
Darla H. said
did you just send this..I took my dog out for a minute…pooh
Darla H. said
I still am not working this right..the blog thing..I have to keep going back out of the blog and in just to see NEW reply….it burns man…what do i do?
Darla H. said
ah helloooooooo r u there…..
Darla H. said
ah hello…can you hear me now…can you hear me now
Corey said
I replied… for some reason it posted my comment up above. scroll up and you will see. I was asking if you have ever been baptized in the Holy spirit. I was in 1997 because I was told I had to have it otherwise I wasn’t really saved. But I’m glad I thought that otherwise I would have let it go and not had that supernatural encounter with God. I am talking about how I was baptized like in the upper room with the disciples. It was quite an amazing experience. This let me know that I was really saved. Say Hi to Poo for me Lol! What kind of dog is he?
Darla H. said
read my prior reply to this LOL
Corey said
I must say that I spoke the tongues out of my mouth when the Holy Spirit descended on me. I felt the very powerful presence of God as though he were sitting on my shoulder and it just came out. My head lifted up so that I was looking into the sky and my spirit just started uttering these strange words. I have no idea of what I was saying but it sounded as though I (my spirit) was saying something to God. Words can’t describe what it feels like to be in the very presence of God like that. I remember the next morning walking across the parking into a Safeway grocery store and I felt that presence of God around me again and almost started doing it again until I got to the entrance of the grocery store and all of a sudden… it was as though he left and flew away. I almost said Hey… Where’d you Go? Then I realized, God (the spirit) does not act unbecomingly. He would not have me in the middle of a grocery store speaking in tongues Lol! Everyone would have thought I was nuts or something. After that day, I became keenly aware of the fact that God is with us everywhere we go and aware of us every minute of every day. He knows the number of hairs on our heads for Pete’s sake!
Darla H. said
look around for my other replies ..tour conversation got dislocated in the middle so it looks like we are nuts on here….
Darla H. said
Ok this should be in order this is my response to that.
Ya know Core….I have literally walked in every gift but THAT one…I think when it happens to me it will be huge….I have been one of those people hauled off into the back room to try to get it…stayed after church forever with every Tom..D..and Harry laying hand on me trying to recieve it….I have no idea what it up with it…..you can be in agreement for me to receive it….
Corey said
yea… you are right. We look like we are outta our minds here. Replies are being posted in the middle and to the left and to the right and underneath and sideways and crooked and…. You can look for my reply where i have stood in agreement with you to receive that Baptism gift.
Darla H. said
Ya I am going through my yahoo to reply so I can see it remotely close to our current conversation. Did you see my response to your last one?
Corey said
Just read a reply from you that you left 15 minutes ago that i didn’t know was there until I back out of the sight and came back and there it was! You were talking about how you sat there and prayed for someone else to receive the gift and got saved through it while you just sat there. I made a suggestion on what you can do to remedy that situation so you can get it. Look for my reply above and you will see my suggestion. It’s something that I did when I got it. It’s a matter of well…. go ahead and read it.
Darla H. said
I did..this is crazy…..I am going to hit the hay for now to much searching for replies…..I will see you later today or late tonight since it is sunday already….next time lets try to so messaging or emailing if we chat too late..i am up late right now but when I start my new job I probably will not be on here till about 3:00 in morning..I will be working nights also..without computer…my email is in my profile..use it
I will look one more time before I go to bed
Corey said
ALRIGHT!!!!! ….. I’m getting CORNFUSED HERE!
Corey said
OK… SOUNDS GOOD.! .. I mean… sounds good. Lol! I’ll just use your email. I’m gonna upload my profile probably Wednesday and I’ll have mine ther as well… Talk to ya soon! Good night!
ascetic43 said
http://www.blabbermouth.net/news.aspx?mode=Article&newsitemID=184714
Off topic, and I know this is more up Russ Dizdar’s alley, but I figured you’d all be interested too. Did the band “Black Awakening” steal the name from Dizdar’s work, or did they get it….somewhere else? Either way, it can’t be helpful as far as normalizing the phrase….
Cheers.
Corey said
And you were always on my miiiiinnd. You were always on my miiiinnnndd. Sorry… got the willie nelson thing goin here. Anybody there? What’s the matter with everyone? It’s only 4 in the morning!! Anyone!? Marzulli! Are you there?! What a bunch of wimps!!
Corey said
Alley? … Was it something I said? Guess it’s just me and Willie Nelson. GEEEE Aint it funny….How time slips awaaaaay! Haven’t heard that one in awhile.
Corey said
Dudes…. what happened to everyone? Dude? Dude?
Elaine said
Hi kids! I was just thinking about our squabbles here that are such a burden for L.A. since he is in an outreach ministry that aims to draw more folks to Christ…….
Some of us have become such close friends through the comments that we forget about strangers who are here for the first time. We should all keep in mind that this is meant for comments to a blog and not a fast paced chat room where quick thoughts are just blurted and then gone as the stream of consciousness carries the previous banter away as the chat continues to scroll.
I promise to try to remember that everything I post here will remain viewable in the blog! We can do our banter chat as we listen to the show on Thursdays?
nomemoleste said
Speaking in Tongues — first hour
Gifts of The Spirit (3 vocal gifts, of 9) — start time 52:30
lamarzulli said
Nome – I deleted your posts as I want to go very slowly here and I want to make sure we’re all on the same page as we progress. I like Prince, and folks are welcome to view his teaching, but I’m the one whose bringing this I want to do it slowly, line by line, precept by precept. Thanks
Eric W. said
“http://youtu.be/m6fmE97jjA0″
Mind blowing radio show done in late 2011 with Chris White interviewing Dr. Micheal Bennett aka Dr. Future.
Subject: Sorcery-and-Drugs-In-Opening-The-Last-Days-Spirit-Portal-Dr-Future-Interview
One hour and forty minutes.
Eric W. said
That dude has a gift for yak.
Mrs M said
I miss futurequake!