L.A. Marzulli's Blog

Politics, Prophecy & the Supernatural

We’re still here – No Rapture?

Posted by lamarzulli on June 1, 2009

rapture         I am going to weigh in on this date setting of the Rapture of the church, because I believe it is a symptom of something bigger. Over the weekend many Christian sites were buzzing with a post that declared that the church was going to be raptured on the day of Pentecost – Sunday May 31st. Of course nothing happened as I believe, “no man knows the day or the hour, not even the son or the angels, but only the father.” Does that mean I don’t believe in the Rapture? Let’s set the record straight, because there have been rumors of what I believe, which have been greatly exaggerated. First of all the word rapture is never mentioned in scripture. It is the Latin word Rapturo (caught up) , which is what Paul alludes to in 1 Thessalonians 3:13-18 when he tells us,

Brothers, we do not want you to be ignorant about those who fall asleep, or to grieve like the rest of men, who have no hope. 14We believe that Jesus died and rose again and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him.15According to the Lord’s own word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left till the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. 18Therefore encourage each other with these words.

     It is clear from the text that this event will happen. I look forward to it and my deepest wish is that it will happen before the Tribulation gets underway. But here is the danger of dwelling on this. It divides us. Are you aware that I’m censored on some Christian sites because I am accused of not believing in a pre-trib rapture? There is an element in Christendom that wants to argue as to when the Rapture of the church occurs. There are denominations that have made this one doctrine the centerpiece of what they believe, and if you don’t adhere to it you can’t belong to their church, or even sell your books in their bookstores. Here’s what I think. No one really knows. I have attended lectures by Biblical scholars with maps and charts and diagrams on both sides of the issue. Each of these scholars believing that they had figured it all out and had the scriptural evidence to prove their point. They both can’t be right can they? You can’t have a Pre and a Post tribulation viewpoint at the same time! In fact, if we’re intellectually honest, no man really knows. This seems to be evident, as I pointed out there are scholars who differ greatly in their position. What a great distraction! Meanwhile, the enemy is manifesting more than ever and the church is asleep. What an I talking about? Those of you who have been reading this BLOG for any length of time know that I believe we are poised for the greatest deception that the church has ever faced, and I make mention of it constantly. It is this, that Aliens created us, started the worlds greatest religions and now, at this critical juncturein our history, are here to help us through this next evolutionary stage. In short this is the alien gospel 101 and it is the basis of the coming deception.

        A few months ago there was a woman, Blossom Goodchild, who claimed that UFOs were going to manifest on October 14th. I BLOGGED about this saying that she was being misled. She is deceived by these entities, that lie to her. They are fallen angels who are masquerading as ‘alien’s.  

       Those of us in the church should know better than to set a date for the rapture. We have no excuse, as we are told that no man knows the day or the hour! All we do is stir up false hope and make ourselves look like a Christian version of Blossom Goodchild. In Mathew 24, Mark 13 & Luke 21, Jesus tells us what is going to happen well in advance, wars, pestilence, earthquakes, fearful signs in the heavens and men fainting from fear of what is coming on the earth. Most importantly is that the Jews will be gathered from the four corners of the earth and reestablished in their ancient homeland, Israel. We are told to watch for these signs and when we see them KNOW that His coming is soon. The signs are here and most people are choosing to ignore them. The enemy is manifesting all over the world, as the supernatural is becoming more overt. He grows bolder because he knows his time is short. Yet the church, seems to be blinded as to what is happening all around her. We are told to watch and be ready. To be able to give an answer in season and out of season. We are not instructed to argue when the Lord gathers us together. That is focusing on ourselves and not those who are lost and don’t have a clue as to what is going on. We know the Middle East is heating up again. North Korea is ready to launch another IBM. The Russians are moving troops on the border of Georgia and ships in the Persian Gulf. Iran presses forward with their ambition to develop a nuke. There is talk of a one world financial system a global currency. UFOs are seen all over the world… Wake up and get your head out of the sand!

              As long as I am here I will continue to sound a warning and will do so until the Lord takes me home, or in a twinkling of an eye, meets me in the air…

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55 Responses to “We’re still here – No Rapture?”

  1. Hi Lynn,

    Great blog! At the beginning of last year I sensed the leading of the Holy Spirit to focus my on-line teaching (weekly teaching e-mail & blog site) on the teaching of the various aspects of eschatology. We see, in my opinion, two extremes when it comes to prophetic teaching. 1) Pastors ignore it altogether and put their heads in the sand and just tell people how to be victorious in this earth realm with virtually no preparation for heaven. 2) Bible teachers getting into error and all sorts of abborent theology centered around prophecy.

    I believe both extremes are wrong and detrimental to the Body at large. The bottom line is Jesus IS coming back. There WILL be a catching away (rapture), even though we don’t know exactly when. I personally hold to a pre-trib position. However, I am of late researching the pre-wrath position. Scripture emphasizes being READY for His return, not the TIMING thereof. We should NEVER make a brother or sister’s eschatological leanings a basis for fellowship.

    Kevin J.

  2. Leslie T said

    Well said. I completely agree with you that arguing about when we will meet the Lord in the air is a great distraction, and no man knows when that will happen. I have felt most of my life that I would see the Lord’s Second Coming and whats happening in front of our eyes in the world today sure points to the fact it is near, even at the door.

  3. Bruce said

    >>Meanwhile, the enemy is manifesting more than ever and the church is asleep. What an I talking about?<<

    Well stated, Lynn. The church did nothing to stand against Hitler because they knew that Hitler was the antichrist and the rapture would happen soon.

  4. Hector27 said

    lynn,

    thank you for your blog today… i for one think its been a bit too long since the last one! :)

    yes, the date setters always end up with mud on their faces…
    btw i lol-ed at the ‘Christian version of blossom goodchild’ comment! hahaha!

    yes, some if not most Christians KNOW the time is near for Christs return-
    the only problem is, you can SENSE the opposition-
    it is indeed a spirit of slumber which has overtaken Christiandom..

    however, these things MUST come to pass, in order to fullfill the scripture!
    the bible says that ALL the virgins fell asleep…
    the reference to the garden of ghethsemane is also relevant,
    because even the ‘inner circle’ fell asleep in the garden of ghethsemane!

    lets face it, we, as the body of believers, are under intense spiritual pressure right now,
    but we dont even necessarily know it!
    (esp. here in america, we are addicted to recreational EVERYTHING!)

    the spiritual pressure manifests itself like it did in the garden-

    a STRONG spirit of slumber has overtaken us…
    it is indeed one of the signs…

  5. cottonwoodcreekfarm said

    The Midnight Hour draweth nigh! Just some morning musings. tick tock tick tock………..

    And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. John 3:19

    then Jesus said unto them, Yet a little while is the light with you. Walk while ye have the light, lest darkness come upon you: for he that walketh in darkness knoweth not whither he goeth. John 12:35

    A little while, and ye shall not see me: and again, a little while, and ye shall see me, because I go to the Father. John 16:16

    And ye now therefore have sorrow: but I will see you again, and your heart shall rejoice, and your joy no man taketh from you. John 16:22

    Oh let the wickedness of the wicked come to an end; but establish the just: for the righteous God trieth the hearts and reins Psalm 7:9

    Evil shall slay the wicked: and they that hate the righteous shall be desolate. Psalm 34:21

    Let the sinners be consumed out of the earth, and let the wicked be no more. Bless thou the LORD, O my soul. Praise ye the LORD. Psalm 104:35

    • Bruce said

      I remember as a youngster, churches used to sing the old hymn, He’s Coming Soon.

      We are so close.

    • cottonwoodcreekfarm said

      I love this song- Can’t beat the oldies !!!!!

      He’s Coming Back!

      Chorus:
      He’s coming back on a silver cloud of glory!
      He’s gonna take me away!
      I’m looking now at the signs of His returning.
      It won’t be long, it may just be today!

      Now, Jesus has gone to prepare for me a mansion
      Way up on Glory Avenue!
      I’m standing firm on the promise that He made me
      That “Where I am, you may be there, too.”

      Chorus:
      He’s comin’ back on a silver cloud of glory!
      He’s gonna take me away!
      I’m lookin’ now for the sign of His returnin’.
      It won’t be long, it may just be today!

      Oh, how many times have I yearned for His appearing
      When He will take His bride away?
      I’m planning now to attend that marriage supper
      On that great eternal wedding day!

      Chorus:
      He’s comin’ back on a silver cloud of glory!
      He’s gonna take me away!
      I’m lookin’ now for the sign of His returnin’.
      It won’t be long, it may just be today!

      Chorus:
      He’s comin’ back on a silver cloud of glory!
      He’s gonna take me away!
      I’m lookin’ now for the sign of His returnin’.
      It won’t be long, it may just be today!

      Tag:
      It may just be ——– today!

    • I would have to agree Bruce. Its hard to beat the old hymns! They are becoming more dear to me all the time.

      Kevin J.

  6. Doug said

    Good blog. There are verses that support both Pre Trib and Mid Trib. I don’t see any point to Post Trib.
    However, we are fervently admonished to watch and be ready. As if it is coming as a surprise when we least expect it.
    If that admonishment is for Mid Tribbers or Post Tribbers who are still here, then they apparently get awful lazy or stupid during the time of the Tribulation. I cannot see how anyone belonging to Christ and who is saved as not anxiously watching for His return every moment of their pathetic lives.
    With the AntichristandtheDragon breathing fire to catch them and kill them and all the natural and man made catastrophes going on at that time, Christ’s return would be extremely paramount and a warning to stay alert and awake for it, would be oxymoronic.

    Also, I don’t like the idea that the MidTribbers have that they are watching for Antichrist to start things, when the NT is rife with admonishments to watch for Jesus Christ.

    These warnings are for a purpose.

  7. Virginia said

    Interesting read for June 1 on http://www.lookupfellowship.com/

    The most mundane events, in this case a spelling bee, can have alot to teach or reveal to us if we have eyes to see.

    • Hi Virginia,

      I took a look at the piece you linked. Wow! God is screaming His warnings in this hour it would seem. The refrence to Obama’s “major speech” this coming Thursday, June 4th, is one I think we should pay attention to. I don’t think there is much time left to debate rapture positions. If it is pre-trib, then we’d better have our “flying clothes” on! If it is mid-trib or pre-wrath, it would behoove us to make preparations for some very rocky days ahead.

      Jim Bakker has been telling people for some time now to put away non-pershiable food and supplies because of what is coming on the earth. Are we listening? This is not the America that most of us were born in folks. Things that we have held near and dear are unraveling right before our eyes! Wisdom demands we prepare for whatever lies ahead in the very near future.

      Kevin J.

  8. Laura said

    Hey, I was all ready to be raptured this weekend, but then again, I’m ready every day!

    I know what my views are, but they have nothing to do with fellowshiping with other believers or being about the Lord’s business!! I think all of God’s children can learn a lesson here: Don’t let unimportant difference divide us! After all, we’ve been saved by GRACE. May we be filled with such grace and love that it overflows and slops on all those around us.

  9. John B said

    JESUS SPEAKS OF THE RAPTURE & tells us exactly when it will happen.

    Mathew 24:29-31. Jesus says: “Immediately [after] the Tribulation of those days”
    there shall be some unnatural events take place upon the Earth as a result of the Heavens being shaken vs29.
    And then the sign of the Son of Men will appear in the Sky, causing all to mourn.
    Then they will “See [Jesus coming] in power and great Glory vs30.
    In this very next verse 31 Jesus says: “He will send forth His [Angels] with [a] great [trumpet] and they will gather [together] His Elect from the four winds, from one end of the [Sky]to the other.

    The thing to notice is that it is “After the tribulation” that Jesus appears in the Sky for all to see (No secret) Then just as Paul confirmed in 1Thes4, there are Angels with A trumpet sounding to gather the saints (elect) in the Sky (air) to meet the Lord and be with the Lord.

    There is no denying that Jesus was speaking of His second coming at the end of the age and of the impending salvation of his saints being caught up by the Angels in order to be away from the wrath of the Lamb in judgment upon an unrepentant wicked world. For in vs37 He says that it would be as in the days of Noah, “there shall be two men in the field one will be taken the other left behind”…….vs40-44.

    In the days of Noah those left behind (the wicked) were judged by the Flood.
    Here however, is the “judgment of Eternal Fire”, which those left behind shall experience at the hand of the Lord. Mat25:41.

    Apostle Peter also refers to this judgment of the ungodly by Fire,
    “The day of the lord (his appearing) like a thief (quickly), in which the heavens will pass away……the Earth and its works will be burned up” 2Pet 3:7-13.

    We can be certain as to when the rapture takes place and also of what will be thereafter. What we do not Know is when The Lord Shall return, “no man knows the day and hour” vs36. It is to that which we are to be always ready for (His appearing in Glory).

    The book of revelations comes to a conclusion with these words of Jesus
    “Behold, I am coming quickly, and my reward is with me, to render to every man according to what he has done”. Rev22:12.
    That implies two things: 1. Salvation to the Saints 2. judgment to the ungodly. (see Blog: The Last Trumpet)
    John B http://www.myspace.com/no_Hell

    • John B said

      the assumption that the feast of Tabernacle as anything to do with the rapture is exactly what Paul warned about being deceived by the “Giving Heed to Jewish Fables” Titus1:13,14 John B

    • Thomas said

      I disagree. Paul wrote in the Colossian letter that the feasts, holy days, new moons, sabbaths, etc. were “shadows of the things to come”. Also, a study of the scriptures reveals that Christ was crucified on Passover, spent the first three days of the Feast of Unleaven Bread in the grave, and rose on the Feast of First Fruits. The Church, of course, came into being on Pentecost. If God used the spring feasts for those purposes, is it then impossible for the fall feasts to have similarly important meanings?

    • Barbara said

      This is my first ever comment to any website, but I just could not let John B’s interpretation of Matthew 24:29-31 go by without submitting a different interpretation. I am recommending this website in Christian love with the hope that it will open up minds regarding this scripture: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8RMPmBgYEJU&feature=PlayList&p=4C3E7D72EAB9AB76&index=3. As has already been said by so many of you, the important thing is to be sure of your salvation through the precious shed blood of our Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ, and to pray for one another and love one another and to “keep looking up”.

    • John B said

      The substance has come in Christ Amen. Shadow’s have faded in the Light of His Revelation. John B

    • Kevin Shrum said

      John B. is wrong in regards to Matthew 24 being a post-trib rapture of the Church. It is a gathering of surviving Jews into the Kingdom. No Church in Matthew 24, the whole context is Jewish. What Gentile is relaxing or praying as Peter did in Acts on the Housetop. See the scripture references below:

      Matthew 24: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

      31And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

      Deuteronomy 30

      1And it shall come to pass, when all these things are come upon thee, the blessing and the curse, which I have set before thee, and thou shalt call them to mind among all the nations, whither the LORD thy God hath driven thee,

      2And shalt return unto the LORD thy God, and shalt obey his voice according to all that I command thee this day, thou and thy children, with all thine heart, and with all thy soul;

      3That then the LORD thy God will turn thy captivity, and have compassion upon thee, and will return and gather thee from all the nations, whither the LORD thy God hath scattered thee.

      4If any of thine be driven out unto the outmost parts of heaven, from thence will the LORD thy God gather thee, and from thence will he fetch thee:

      5And the LORD thy God will bring thee into the land which thy fathers possessed, and thou shalt possess it; and he will do thee good, and multiply thee above thy fathers.

  10. cottonwoodcreekfarm said

    * A Dispensation – The system by which anything is administered. In Christian terms, looking back, it refers to a period in history whereby God dealt with man in a specific way. (Conscience, Law, Grace)
    * Dispensationalism – A system of theology that sees God working with man in different ways during different dispensations. While ‘Dispensations’ are not ages, but stewardships, or administrations, we tend to see them now as ages since we look back on specific time periods when they were in force.
    * Dispensationalism is distinguished by three key principles.
    1 – A clear distinction between God’s program for Israel and God’s program for the Church.
    2 – A consistent and regular use of a literal principle of interpretation
    3 – The understanding of the purpose of God as His own glory rather than the salvation of mankind. (End Times Org.)

    • John B said

      According to the Theology you Reffer, there are seven dispensations,(I do not List them here) However; the one most important of all as spoken by the Apostle Paul, Quote “That in the dispensation of the fullness of Times” Eph 1:10 The theology in Question makes no reference to at all. WHY?

      Answer; Because therein the Apostle is in contradiction to the theology, We are currently in that Dispensation. It is the dispensation of Grace and it is the fullness of Times. “For the Grace of God has Appeared bringing His salvation to all men”. Titus 2:11

      After the dispensation of times comes (Eternity). all who are to be saved will (have been) when Eternity invades the physical creation revealing the King Of Glory coming with His Mighty Angels in flaming Fire, taking vengeance on them who know not God 2 Thes 1:7,8. It is At that point That we shall be caught up. John B

  11. Hector27 said

    um yup i must confess that i kinda got into an argument with someone about gay marriage…
    i know that it is not a foundational doctrine, and that i should lead a person to the Lord first…
    THEN, as they grow in the Lord, the finer points of doctrine can be established…
    soooo, yeah. i was arguing in the flesh…duh. i know better…
    but ya know when ya have a friend and ya kinda get hurt by their attitude? yeah. like that…
    and so ya kinda lash out at them because you feel hurt? ughhhhhhh…

  12. joe said

    After I read the Bill Salus book, “Isralestine”(thanks to L.A.’s blog etc) where it talks about “before the Day of the Lord” and the “Day of the Lord” and all the reasons he states regarding scripture, I am convinced, that when the the church is called up in the air is early on, Jesus hasn’t come to yet, to establish his on earth kingdom but to take us home, this begins or signals the beginning of the trib. At the 3.5 year mark will be his return to destroy Satan, implement judgement and setup his kingdom. It all hinges on the covenant God made with Abraham. Nothing else. Further in the Salus book, he says according to scripture, 10 confederate nations that are intricately woven around the Abrahamic Covenant will rise up against Israel and her “exceedingly great army” will destroy them. Israel will expand and flourish, the Anti-Christ will come on the scene to try and stop them and chase them out of their land, then God comes to interview at the last minute. This occurs about the time of the Magog alliance of Iran-Russian from the North. It has maps too.

    Get his book, read it, it is absolutely the best read in explaining with scripture that I’ve seen.

  13. Late Night Lisa said

    Honestly, I didn’t have any special expectation to be raptured on Pentecost although I did read all the reasons why.

    Last year many people thought it may have been on Rosh Hashanah & that made sense as well at the time.

    I’ve spent enough time studying Bible prophecy now to know that it has a tendency to get one pretty revved up.

    I remember when God had revealed to me the Alien/demonic connection & it had fueled that fire in my spirit into a blow torch.

    So with all of the “signs” happening @ such an accelerated pace these days I don’t blame a Christian for getting worked up & thinking a certain day may be prophetic. We can all learn from it & move on w/grace. (At least we’re all looking for the Lord & are energized by remaining alert.)

    What if by chance God doesn’t allow these demonic/alien entities to manifest themselves as we suspect?

    What are we going to say then?

    I just hope to remain constant & remain doing what God has called me to do & not allow a perceived event or situation to distract me from that purpose.

    I’ve studied the 3 main “catching up” timing scenarios & I still lean to pre-trib but actually there may be truth in three. Pre-Trib,Pre-wrath, & those who remain alive through the Tribulation @ the 2nd Coming.

    Perry Stone teaches this in the 3 Jewish harvest festivals. “1st festival is barley, processed by blowing up (rapture), 2nd festival is wheat – processed by crushing (mid tribulation when 144,000 Jews are “crushed” when their eyes are opened & accept Christ, 3rd grape harvest – processed by squeezing representing the 2nd coming when God will judge the remaining people.”

    Anyway-it is what it is & that’s it.

    God does tell His saints some things in advance but it seems to me that we are to live our fullest in Christ each day & not worry about tomorrow.

    Is it God’s plan to use His saints in the future who are “onto” the Alien agenda or will we be out of here by then?

    We have alot of questions w/no answers-Yet. We’re being taught perseverance & patience.**Not something we really love to learn “in the process” is it? At least not to me (:

    • Hi Late Night Lisa,

      You are correct in saying that there is truth in all of the rapture positions. I like Perry Stone’s teaching on this. As one studies the book of Revelation I believe we can see pre, mid, and post raptures occuring. I personally believe that the Church is “caught up” in chapter 4, representing what happens at the end of the Church Age that comes to a close in chapter 3. Then we see the “two witnesses” caught up in chapter 11 verses 11 and 12.

      Then in chapter 19 we see the 144,000 in heaven, seemingly having been caught up right at the end of the Tribulation period.

      Finis Dake in the notes in his annotated reference Bible actually lists five (5) “raptures:

      1. Enoch
      2. Elijah
      3. The Church
      4. The two witnesses
      5. The 144,000

      Of course we know that Jesus was “caught up” or ascended into Heaven from the Mount of Olives.

      Just some things to think about.

      Kevin J.

    • elisa said

      I wish you would make up your mind about who you belong to!
      Are you on the Lords side? Or the enemy camp? Who is right, God or the gays?
      You cant have it both ways~

  14. Lisa S. said

    I have studied the scriptures and believe that the rapture will be pre-trib. It seems as though this view is becoming more and more scarce as the seminaries don’t seem to be teaching it anymore and like to teach replacement theology. I am openly mocked for having a pre-trib viewpoint as though I still believed that the world was flat or something. I also know people who won’t fellowship with you if you believe in post-trib. I personally try to focus on being a Christian first. There are many dear and wonderful ministries who have differing opinions on this subject, but they don’t teach on end-times. Because I support and am ministered to by some of these ministries I have also been rejected by pre-tribbers. I think this is wrong and I don’t think that it pleases the Lord either. I guess we will always have division in the Body since it has been there from the beginning. Someday when we see the Lord, He will set us all straight. I think we need to focus on pleasing Him and asking Him to guide us into all truth so that when we see Him face to face we will not be ashamed. Jesus also said that love would grow cold before He returns. God has been showing me for years that the church is blind and asleep. He is starting to sound the alarm clock to wake up the church. Who is listening?
    Who has an ear to hear what the Spirit is saying to the church? Will some of the church sleep through the rapture and miss it? I don’t know that answer to that question, but it does make me wonder. God has commanded me to watch and be ready, to sound the alarm and prepare the bride for His return. L.A. continue what you are doing and do not stop until that glorious day when we meet in the air!
    p.s. I can’t understand why people would say Jesus is coming on say, next Friday for example. If people really know God’s word they would know that we will not know the day or the hour. That obviously disqualifies any date setting. You only discredit yourself and cause others to stumble when you do this kind of thing. We all see signs of the time of the end, but that is all they are. Signs! God is setting the stage for the time to come. God is in control even though the enemy would have us think that he is in control. It is up to us to watch and pray and be ready, going about the work of the Father until the very hour He calls us home. Whether it be through the rapture or through death.

    • Lisa said

      satan is working overtime to destroy the Body.
      He WANTS us to devour each other.

      When the ‘rapture’ does not take place as anticipated/hope and expected by the pre-tribbers – AND if they do not have a love of the Truth in their hearts (2 Thess) – then they will be turned over to deception.

      Some people say believing in this doctrine is not crucial to their salvation.

      I say it can be deadly to those who do not possess a love of the Truth in their hearts above everything else.

      What and Who is the Truth?

      Yeshua said, “I am the Way the TRUTH and the Life”

      Please remember we need to carefully guard our hearts and our minds.

      Seek answers ONLY from Yeshua. He’s faithful.

    • nlouise said

      I agree with you on your points. How many people, who claim to be christians, will turn, when they aren’t raptured out of here, and then the alien deception comes into play? That can be dangerous.

      Also, who are the elect that will still be here until the end? Jesus said that the time will be cut short for the elect’s sake. The parable that talks about the the tares being pulled out and burned in the fire, seems more like the evil will be taken out. Also the Bible states that at the end we will not all die, but we will all be changed. (Mystery; changed into their heavenly bodies.)

      As much as I would love to believe (always taught to believe)that God is going to wisk us out of here in the middle of the night away from the destruction of the antichrist system, I just cannot justify a pre, or mid rapture, when the bible clearly suggests that the elect will still be here. I seriously doubt that those who were luke warm would be considered the elect.

  15. doubleJ said

    Thanks Lynn for your post and for tackling the date settig issue. I was recently talking through facebook with an older pastor/ friend of mine about the very subject. I know many non-Christians who already have enough reason to never step foot into a church or even take Christians seriously. This definitely doesn’t help. As my pastor mentioned to me… prohphecy about the end times are to keep us aware of what is going on in this world, with the faith and confidence that Jesus is coming back and a certain responsibilty for us while he is yet to return. I love reading your blogs… keep up the good work.

  16. Lisa said

    Actually, the verse you quote in Thessalonians tells us exactly when we will be gathered up.

    Seriously – take a look at that Scripture again:

    15According to the Lord’s own word, we tell you that WE WHO ARE STILL ALIVE, WHO ARE LEFT TILL THE COMING of the LORD, will certainly NOT PRECEDE those who have fallen asleep.

    This is clear. We who are alive and remain – who are left until the coming of Yeshua (His 2nd coming! and there is only one second coming) will NOT precede (go before!) those who have fallen asleep (those who have already died in this earthly body)!!

    16For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. 18Therefore encourage each other with these words.

    Here it tells us Yeshua will come from heaven with a loud command – the voice of an archangel AND w/ the Trumpet call of Yaweh AND THE DEAD IN CHRIST WILL RISE FIRST,. That means the dead in Yeshua will rise BEFORE those who are alive and remain until Yeshua’s second coming.

    It’s only AFTER the dead in Yeshua rise and are caught that WE will be gathered up TOGETHER with them in the clouds to MEET THE LORD IN THE AIR.

    Why would the verse end with ‘Therefore encourage each other with these words’ if we were not going to be tried and tested in tribulation?

    It’s very clear in this scripture alone, and there are many other scriptures that support this – that we are going to suffer through some tribulation and be caught up AT Yeshua’s second coming. Hallelujah:)!

    We may not know the hour of Yeshua’s coming, BUT we CAN know when we will be gathered up in relation to other signs Yeshua gave us. Resurrection of the dead in Yeshua is KEY to understanding WHEN we will be ‘raptured’!! It’s so obvious in this verse and yet I did not see it for years!!!!!!!!

    We will be caught up:
    At Yeshua’s Second Coming.
    At the last trumpet call of Yaweh
    and
    AFTER the dead in Yeshua have been caught up.

    It’s futile to hope for a ‘pre-trib’ rapture when really understanding what this verse clearly says.

    Yeshua, through the Holy Spirit, opened my eyes to the simplicity and obvious message in this verse.

    Yaweh bless you all as you continue to seek Him.

    • Lisa said

      correction of this sentence for clarity. I wrote: “That means the dead in Yeshua will rise BEFORE those who are alive and remain until Yeshua’s second coming.”

      Perhaps this is a better way to word it:

      That means the dead in Yeshua will rise BEFORE those who are alive and remain until Yeshua’s second coming – and then we who are alive and remain will be caught up TOGETHER with them to meet Yeshua in the air.

    • John B said

      AMEN JOHN B

    • Laura said

      Well, that’s one way to interpret those verses, but it’s not the way I interpret them. To me, they speak clearly of a pre-trib rapture. And many others agree with my interpretation. I’m not trying to say you should, too. I’m simply pointing out that your view isn’t one that everyone on this board agrees with.

      All the same, I respect your view and look forward to meeting you face to face–whenever that occurs.

    • John B said

      The problem is precisely interpretation instead of revelation John B

    • John B said

      Interpretation takes on many Faces, Revelation reflects the heart of God, Let us ensure that our Hearts is one with The Lord’s John B

    • Lisa said

      Dear Laura,
      I didn’t ‘interpret’ those verses. The Holy Spirit opened my eyes to what is plainly stated that I simply could not ’see’ before.

      I now know pre-trib rapture is a [false] doctrine of man – not from the Holy Spirit.

      I believe it will play into the deception – in a secondary sort of way. What I mean is – when the ‘rapture’ doesn’t take place when pre-tribbers hope it will – AND if they do not have a love of the Truth in their hearts (2 Thess) – then they will be turned over to deception.

      I urge you and anyone else who believe pre-trib to ask the LORD. The LORD will answer All who have a love of the Truth in their heart – and go humbly before the LORD and ask Him . He will answer those who seek Him with a sincere heart.

      Just a warning: If your hope of pre-trib doctrine outweighs your love of the truth – for whatever reason — then He will allow you to retain that belief – leaving you wondering…….

      It’s a scary thing when one realises the LORD never forces us to eat the Truth!! We have to seek Him humbly, to actually find the Truth. It’s up to us to seek FROM HIM. Not other people. Not pastors. Not in books, tapes, seminars, church. But from Yeshua Himself. I learned this lesson the HARD WAY.

      I’m accountable for EVERY word I utter. So I do not say any of this lightly. I’m simply sharing what the Holy Spirit showed me by revelation one night whilst praying and reading the Scriptures. It blew my mind. I was raised believing pre-trib.

      How can I say these things with such surety? BECAUSE when the Holy Spirit opened my eyes to Truth then I KNEW it was Truth. And I also knew I must be willing to share that Light with others when the Holy Spirit moves me, otherwise I’m in disobedience.

      Yaweh bless all those who seek first His Kingdom and all His Righteousness, with a sincere heart.

  17. Christine said

    I have heard all of the arguements pre-trib, mid-trib, and post-trib. I also heard the new ones about all 3! I am just resolute that, however it happens, I want to be there! I want my loved ones to be there too! I won’t stop proclaiming it! I don’t want to be like the Jewish people were at His birth on the earth, and be looking for Him so hard one way, I totally miss Him! It is really hard to see how things will work ahead of time. We are finite man trying to understand an infinite God! We do have “the peace that passeth all understanding.” To me, this means that, however He chooses to make all these things come to pass, I can have peace about it. I would like to point out one thing. In Zechariah 14:4 it talks about when Jesus/Y’shua puts His feet on the Mount of Olives. It says the mountain will split and there will be a valley. The valley will be a place to flee. Then the Lord will come and His saints with Him. If there is a valley to flee to, what is the purpose of the rapture at this point? If His saints are with Him, it would seem to imply that some had already been taken to Him. Just a thought.

  18. Hector27 said

    wow thanks for basically uploading a commercial for a satanic vid… :(

    • Doug said

      A former Christian? Give me a break. A CINO.

      As much it hurts me to hear this raucious stuff, I do see in another way that all this is fulfilling prophecy and is accelerating the “Falling Away”.

      And I fully expect it to get a lot worse, folks.

  19. RUBY said

    I would like to recommend a very good book entitled EARTHQUAKE
    RESURRECTION,by David W. Lowe. It really witnessed to my spirit
    and makes alot of sense. Did any of you read this book? It concerns the “catching up” when Jesus comes as quick as a flash
    of lightening for his Bride. This is not when He returns to earth for all to see.

    • Lisa said

      Dear Laura,
      I didn’t ‘interpret’ those verses. The Holy Spirit opened my eyes to what is plainly stated that I simply could not ‘see’ before.

      I now know pre-trib rapture is a [false] doctrine of man – not from the Holy Spirit.

      I believe it will play into the deception – in a secondary sort of way. What I mean is – when the ‘rapture’ doesn’t take place when pre-tribbers hope it will – AND if they do not have a love of the Truth in their hearts (2 Thess) – then they will be turned over to deception.

      I urge you and anyone else who believe pre-trib to ask the LORD. The LORD will answer All who have a love of the Truth in their heart – and go humbly before the LORD and ask Him . He will answer those who seek Him with a sincere heart.

      Just a warning: If your hope of pre-trib doctrine outweighs your love of the truth – for whatever reason — then He will allow you to retain that belief – leaving you wondering…….

      It’s a scary thing when one realises the LORD never forces us to eat the Truth!! We have to seek Him humbly, to actually find the Truth. It’s up to us to seek FROM HIM. Not other people. Not pastors. Not in books, tapes, seminars, church. But from Yeshua Himself. I learned this lesson the HARD WAY.

      I’m accountable for EVERY word I utter. So I do not say any of this lightly. I’m simply sharing what the Holy Spirit showed me by revelation one night whilst praying and reading the Scriptures. It blew my mind. I was raised believing pre-trib.

      How can I say these things with such surety? BECAUSE when the Holy Spirit opened my eyes to Truth then I KNEW it was Truth. And I also knew I must be willing to share that Light with others when the Holy Spirit moves me, otherwise I’m in disobedience.

      Yaweh bless all those who seek first His Kingdom and all His Righteousness, with a sincere heart.

    • Lisa said

      I beg your pardon Ruby! I clicked the wrong reply button earlier so please disregard my above message as being addressed to you….but take whatever is of worth.

      Incidentally, I just read your comment.

      There is only ONE 2nd Coming of Yeshua. Not two.

      I would urge everyone to seek the LORD on this matter instead of reading books and asking other people about it. All men are liars. Only Yeshua is faithful and 100% honest……..plus He’s privy to the WHOLE TRUTH.

      What’s wrong with us? (I’m including myself in this – because I’m guilty of asking others when I should just get on my knees and ask the Holy Spirit for answers!)

      Yaweh bless all who seek Him diligently.

  20. Bruce said

    Is this an advertisement?

    I really don’t think anyone here is interested.

    There are certain things that can’t be unprovable from a movie, one of them is the saving grace of Jesus Christ.

    Say what you will, but I wonder how you were able to take away the historical accounts that were outside of the scriptures?

  21. Christine said

    Well, since I don’t know what anyone is talking about, the movie, I must have missed it before it was deep6! LOL! I gather it’s probably for the best anyway from the comments! I do love the song Cottonwood posted. So we all agree, Pray people pray, Watch people watch! Don’t get discouraged if it doesn’t happen when you think. Just keep looking up!

  22. Doug said

    The church is spoken of in Revelation 2 and 3 and is never mentioned again until chapter 19 when the Church returns with Jesus as the Bride of Christ.
    “We wait for His son from heaven whom He raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.”1 Thess. 1:10

    Jesus Christ who endured torment on the cross as He died to redeem us from sin. He will endure torment if the church goes through the Tribulation. We are His body.

    Some taunt Pre Trib Rapture believers as being deceived by the Antichrist, when there is no taking up at the beginning. I don’t think that kind of pride is necessary, because anyone going through that period of years will face that risk.
    The Deception is so great that all the world “will believe THE lie.”

    • Lisa said

      EVERYONE will go through tribulation.
      Not everyone will suffer Yaweh’s wrath.
      These are TWO VERY DIFFERENT THINGS. 1 Thess 1:10 is talking about Yaweh’s wrath which will be poured out once Yeshua has returned.

      Remember, Yeshua even spoke about how the days (of the great tribulation) would have to be shortened….

  23. John B said

    The church is spoken about throughout the book of revelations constantly The Whole Book is Addressed To the Saints in various Local churches.
    This is seen when we subject revelations to the Apostles letters and to The lord’s words in the 4 gospels.

    Therein is the problem, “we want to fit the Epistles into revelations”.
    It must be that the symbolic & the imagery be subjected to the clear teachings of the Apostles words.

    Throughout the new testament the Apostles constantly explain the prophets because they (Apostles) bear the Greater Light of revelation.
    Example: The Apostles Say That (Jesus Is to Judge the Living & the Dead when he returns. Jn5:22, Acts 10:42, 2Tim4:1) this is A “foundational truth” concerning the return of Christ,(How many Churches believe this Today?) Everything to do with the return of Jesus must of necessity conform to include this Truth within it & this includes the Rapture.

    It is error to isolate scriptures to suit man’s Theology & then present it as Truth, that is what the Serpent did in the Garden & he has not stopped doing It. He Tried IT with Jesus in the Wilderness Temptation.
    He is the Reason & cause Of division among God’s People. The Lord Knows & as our sister Pointed out, it is an issue of the heart. John B http://www.myspace.com/no_Hell

    • John B said

      Dear Doug, brother in Christ, Jesus said; “If they kill me they will kill you also”
      He said Of Apostle Paul “I will show him that He must suffer for My name sake”
      Apostle Paul said; “all who live a Godly life in Christ Jesus shall suffer Persecution”
      As far As I am Aware All the Apostles were Killed except For John.

      The persecution of the Church is a fact of History, even as I write Christians Are being Killed in China, Sudan, ect,
      All we get at times is Hate Emails even from so called Christians, Dear Brother, I hate no Man, I judge no man.
      We must Be ready To Endure All Things For Him. I have been wrong about scripture before and I don’t profess to know it all, But I know What I know by God’s Grace, His Amazing Grace, I say what I say on this Blog without a Spirit of Argument, I only share What The Lord has Revealed To me, nothing more. The Lord Bless You my Friend
      John B

    • Lisa said

      Amen and bless you John B.

      I understand what you say when you say ‘I know What I know by God’s Grace, His Amazing Grace, I say what I say on this Blog without a Spirit of Argument, I only share What the Lord has Revealed To me, nothing more.”

      Bless you for sharing the Light He has shone you.

      He shows each of us [varying/different] nuggets and none of us has the whole ‘picture’…so it’s vital we communicate IN THE SPIRIT so we’ll be ready and full of ‘oil’ for His Coming.

  24. J Rohr said

    It seems, from my experience, that more is to be gained from seeing how scripture/prophecy has already been fulfilled, than trying to predict current events from scripture and other “hints”. Perhaps one hint is leading to another hint. Jesus said not he nor the even angels know the day… We can know the season but not the day. If we cry “wolf” enough times, people will stop listening and may lose faith and hope. It is not right to say, then, that they were weak in the faith to begin with. We who cause them to stumble will be held accountable!

    Rather than trying to predict the “rapture” date, why don’t we look back on the “non-events” and see what DID happen on those days? Perhaps it isn’t the rapture itself that our attention was being drawn to on those particular days, but other signs of the impending season or last days. The scriptures say that if we know the time and day many will not prepared because some will be caught slouching instead of being prepared. They may fall asleep. If the man of the house knows when the theif is going to break in, he will sleep soundly until that time, and maybe not wake up in time… We must not sleep now. The days are short.

    If it was as simple as putting numbers in a formula… You know what I mean? It isn’t like that. I don’t think it isn’t meant to be done that way. We must live our lives daily as if Jesus will come at any moment for us. So, focusing on a certain day, time and again (how many last-day-prophecies have I heard in my 47.5 years?) is a way to lead some away from what they should be focusing on.

    I’m fascinated about “codes” as much as the next person but I know in my heart that there is no way to predict the day of our Lord’s coming for us. At no other time in my life, however, has it seemed so imminent. And that is the feeling of many that I speak to who are part of the body of Christ.

    That being said, I think that there are probably some hints and codes that can affirm the scirptures. I don’t think they will give us prophecy, just that they may affirm what we have been told in scripture.

    My Grandmother, God bless her, was a Jehovah’s Witness. I do not believe the things they believe but my Grandmother instilled in me some sort of faith at a young age. I credit her, not my parents, with leading me to Jesus. The Jehovah’s Witnesses have been “ringing the rapture bell” for years. They wrongly assume that other “denominations” aren’t watching for the Lord the way they do. At least they want their people to believe that other denominations aren’t the least bit concerned about the end times. In my younger years, that is the way they explained it to me. They also said other Bibles were not accurate because they had the only Bible translated accurately from the original Greek and Hebrew. I don’t agree with that either. But I thank God that I perceived a genuine love of Christ and his teachings in my Grandmother because she gave me what I needed to start my walk with Jesus. Anyway, the point I am trying to make is that those outside of the Jehovah’s Witnesses are indeed alert and concerned and looking forward to that day.

    I take all the “bell ringing” with a grain of salt. I sense there is “something in the air” but I can’t begin to sort it all out. I am preparing myself for the end times. I have spoken to my eldest daughter about it frankly (she says she doesn’t believe there is a God…) and I’m looking for ways to edify my fellow believers and also to witness to those who are at this time “lost”. However, the closer we seem to be getting to the “end” the more crazy what I have to say to non-believers seems to sound. In the past it wasn’t as easy to see the line of seperation between believers and non-believers. The differences are becoming glaring now. Not just in our lifestyles but mostly in our worldview. That is the biggest area of contention between belivers and non-believers. Some day we who refuse to budge from our Christian WORLD VIEW will be persecuted. It could be quite soon indeed. I don’t count on a rapture to rescue me from that time of trouble but I do hope for it. Don’t lose hope. We can’t live in Jesus without it. Our reward is in heaven, that is a promise we can’t deny, and one we can bank on.

    Onward, fellow soldiers of the Faith!

    • nlouise said

      You are so right about it being ‘glaring’ now. The changes that have gone on just in the last decade are blatant. The television personalities just blasts any Christian view these days. It reminds of when the Bible says ‘Woe to you who call good evil and evil good.’

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