L.A. Marzulli's Blog

Politics, Prophecy & the Supernatural

The History Channel: Hype That Changes NOTHING!

Posted by lamarzulli on May 26, 2009

Hello everyone. This post is from Jody Rohr and I’m including it in today’s BLOG because, in my opinion, she nailed the History Channel’s show last night, that featured, Ida, the supposed missing link. 

 

There is so much that is happening in the world right now that I’ve included several links to areas of interest.

North Korea: detonated a nuclear device that was similar in strength to the one use at Hiroshima, in the closing days of the WWII. http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D98DCSF00&show_article=1

 

Israel: It appears that Israel is responding to Iran’s saber rattling over the weekend as it moved six of it’s war ships into the Gulf of Aden. http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1088184.html

 

Iran:  Here’s the story about Iran sending it’s warships into the Gulf of Aden. http://in.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idINIndia-39868320090525

 

Mexico: Swine flu deaths rise to 83!

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2009-05/26/content_11434619.htm

 

Pakistan: It appears that upwards of 2.4 million people have been displaced because of the fighting between the Taliban and Pakistani troops. http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5j1ufUjFAroLYzPr6omU3QLXf5rhw

 

USA: Finally! Ron Paul is trying to get the Federal Reserve audited. The name is a misnomer as it has nothing to do with our federal government.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=98782

 

Hello Mr. Marzulli,

Well, well, don’t the “scientists” of the world have vivid imaginations?  I watched the “Link” show tonight on the History Channel and came to some conclusions.  It was only worth my time to see the show so that I can now speak about it.  Otherwise, it was ho-hum. The most that anyone can say about Ida is that she has traits like a monkey and a lemur.   She is one individual, one sample, and nothing can be extrapolated from the facts that she presents, besides the facts that she presents…  The “scientists” examining her have gone to a lot of trouble to “tell us her story” as if it is fact.  Her “story” should be limited to what can be observed and nothing more.  And then they end the show by bringing up the point that some people are not going to be happy about this discovery…  My feeling is: what is to be upset about except that YOU people are telling us what to think about it?! They tell us that she is supposedly 47 million years old.   The accuracy of carbon dating is questionable. She has some traits like lemurs (her body proportions, hands and feet, tail, and size) and some like primates (her fingernails and lack of a grooming claw, lack of tooth comb, presence of ankle bone that primates have but lemurish animals don’t have). I fail to be impressed with their conclusion about her age, less than one year.  I will give reasons for that later. I missed the first few minutes of the show if it started at 9:00 p.m., so I don’t know if some explanation was given for the way she was extracted and preserved.  That topic was covered very lightly later in the show and it still didn’t answer some BIG questions I had regarding the so called “shadow” of her soft tissues, that surrounds the fossil.  How was the fossil extracted from shale in such a way as to preserve it perfectly as it appeared in its present resin “coffin”?  And how, pray tell, was the shadow of her soft tissues also preserved unless she was fossilized in the resin?  If the fossil was extracted from something hard like shale is there some way to also preserve the shadow of her soft tissue? unless the shale she was originally in was discolored and the person/people who preserved the fossil took artistic liberties and added their recreation of the shadow to the resin when they prepared the fossil. I can imagine woody substances in her stomach (like the seeds they say they can see – I couldn’t see them) being fossilized but not soft plant tissues.  Perhaps they also saw the stems/frames of leaves???  I thought the discription of the analysis of her stomach contents was insufficient to explain this. I saw the lump on Ida’s wrist long before it was brought to the viewer’s attention and thought to myself, “She had a broken wrist, or a bone tumor or something that caused that.”  My husband has a similar lump on his wrist, from having broken it,  but it isn’t nearly as big. I also noticed from the x-rays of her skull that she had adult molars still up inside her jaw and came to the conclusion long before it was mentioned that Ida MIGHT have been a juvenile.  That is the first logical conclusion one would come to.  But I know from my own teeth that anomolies in dentition are common.  I have only 24 teeth (rather than the normal 32) that are errupted.   My set of baby teeth was minus 4 on the bottom jaw and minus two on the upper jaw.  My adult teeth errupted far later than my classmates of similar age and I had to wait until I was about 15, and had two of my adult premolars pulled on the top, before I could get braces to correct my overbite and the crowding on the top.  In addition to that, I had one baby pre-molar that was deformed (it had two sections, instead of one, sharing a common root).  The baby tooth behind it was a normal molar but there was never an adult tooth to replace it and I had that baby tooth until I was about 32 years old, when it started to get very loose and to break up, and it had to be pulled.  So, technically, I was born with 5 less teeth in my bottom jaw than should have been there.  One of my adult incisors to the right of the main incisors is also deformed, having a rough ridge along its biting surface.  Both of those incisors are undersized.  My parents both had normal teeth and the correct number of them.  My children also have the normal number of teeth and no deformities but they were both a little slow getting their adult teeth.  When my adult canines on the top started to errupt, it was found that they were both turned backwards!  I had to have surgery to have orthodontic appliances (the metal bands) put on them, and then little gold chains were attached to them, and the wire on my braces, and the chains were twisted each time I saw the orhodontist.  The teeth eventually emerged mostly facing the right direction and then the braces finished the process.  And finally, at about age 38 years, ONE of my 4 wisdom teeth errupted on the upper right (that makes the total of teeth errupted 24 because I’m minus that one adult molar on the bottom left).  It took several years to reach its present state, which seems to be only half-ways out of the gum.  It causes no trouble and has plenty of room due to the other missing teeth. I have a horse who is 22 or 23 years old and he is at an age where most of his teeth could be quite short by now.  Horse teeth continue to grow, in order to replace wear on them, for most of their lives.  At a certain age, which varies from horse to horse but is usually around the time they get close to 20, their teeth stop growing and the resulting wear on the remaining teeth causes them to get worn away.  My old-timer has good length to his molars yet but his top front teeth are almost completely gone.  He should have worn his bottom front teeth off at the same rate, and maybe have remaining about  a half inch to 3/4 of an inch of tooth length on the top and bottom of his front teeth.  But he has close to an inch and a half or an inch and 3/4 on the bottom and nothing but little white nubs that are smooth and flush with the gum on the top.  This could be due to him rubbing his top front teeth on something but the entire time I have owned him (14.5 years now) I have never seen him rub his teeth on anything nor have I seen any spot in his housing that has been being rubbed or chewed on.  The wear on the top front incisors is even all the way around.  If he’d been wearing his teeth off by rubbing, I’d expect to see only the front two incisors that short, and not the other 4 as well. These are anomalies in dentition that are unique to individuals.  What if I had symmetrical absence of those teeth, and no deformities, and had been fossilized?  What if they found only one side of my skull, WITH the assymetries?  Would they say that I was a new species of human?  And my horse?  What if Ida had a slow rate of tooth erruption?  Then how could we determine that she was a juvenile?  Also, considering how smashed the skull was, it seems like a stretch to determine that she didn’t have a tooth comb for lower incisors…  Perhaps their scans and frontal x-rays showed them something they didn’t show us.  They didn’t show us that x-rays or scans confirmed it, they just said she didn’t have a tooth comb… There may be another way to determine whether she was a youth or not, which was not mentioned in the show.  Young animals have incompletely ossified ends on their long bones.  When they have completed the growth of their long bones, usually before they are completely mature, the soft, cartilaginous plates on the end of the bones (which are inbetween the bone and the cartilage of the joint) get hard and become bone.  These ends on juvenile bones are called growth plates.  In horses we see the growth plates harden between the 2nd and 3rd year of life (at which point horsemen say the joints have “closed”).  I think, in humans which grow more slowly, the “joints close” at an older age, around puberty, give or take a year or two.  Someone like a zoo vet or zoologist or paleontologist would know when lemurs and monkeys “close their joints” (ossify the growth plates).  From that point on, the bones above the elbow and true knee on the hind leg continue to lengthen and widen (the pelvis and rib cage get deeper) causing the animal to have more adult-like proportions.  Foals are known for being long-legged with short, shallow bodies and short necks and small heads.  We raise cattle and occassionally we find the remains of a calf that didn’t make it.  Usually, the ends of the bones are not there because they were soft when the calf died.  All the soft tissue disintegrates in a carcass.  Adult cattle bones have the typical shape to the end of their long, leg bones.  Did anyone on the investigating team notice that it appears (as far as I could tell…) that Ida had adult looking ends to her long bones?  They mentioned the substantial nature of the bones/joints leading them to conclude that she must have been pretty muscular.  I agree with that – I saw that also, long before they mentioned it.  But they didn’t touch on the growth plate issue.  If Ida was indeed a juvenile that was about 6 months old, she should have had soft growth plates at the end of her leg bones and they may have deteriorated, along with all the other cartilaginous stuff in her body, before her bones were fossilized.  I don’t know for sure if they would have done so but if they didn’t deteriorate I think x-rays surely should have been able to show a distinct line of seperation where the bones ended and the growth plates began.  It shows up in x-rays of adult bones but not as clearly as in juvenile bones. I have a B.S. in Animal Production (Cal Poly U., Pomona) and have worked for veterinarians and taken x-rays of animals.  I had to take anatomy and physiology classes and meat science (butchering) and learn all about the different domestic animals used in agriculture.  I graduated cum laudi (I wasn’t a slouch student).  I’m not bragging.  I’m just trying to explain why I think I can talk about these things. One time we had a cow go down on one of her hind legs and we had to shoot her because she wasn’t going to get better.  We didn’t have the vet out: it was just pretty certain she was done for (she was quite aged as well).  I was curious about what happened to her hind leg to cause her to go down.  After she was dead, we butchered all but the affected hind quarter.  I dissected it and found that not only had she worn off a good portion of the joint cartilage on the medial side of her knee joint (there was bone on bone there!), she had also torn some joint cartilage (she had been in heat and the weight of other cows mounting her was more than her aged skeleton could handle).  There was a LOT of joint fluid built up around the joint.  She would not have gotten better, for sure.  You don’t do joint replacement on an aged cow… I’m not impressed with Ida being the missing “link”.  How many thousands of species are not represented in the “fossil record”?  How can we take one individual fossil and make such certain claims about it?  The “scientists” are assuming that she was a normal individual and not one with symetrical anomolies.  With only one hind leg to examine, we can only assume the anatomy of the other leg was exactly the same.  The “scientists” are assuming that the physiology of Ida followed the same rules that modern mammals follow (in other words, the age of tooth erruption…).  I seriously question the accuracy of carbon dating…  Ida does not come close to filling in the gaps in the fossil record because we don’t even know what the gaps look like, or how they should be represented.  We can only make educated guesses, which is what science is supposed to do, rather than TELL people with such certainty that “this changes everything”!  It doesn’t change anything.  It just gives fossil and evolution nutts something else to dream about. I also laugh when I see the transition of ape to man…  Why on earth, if modern adaptations make a species more fit for survival, do the ancient species continue to flourish in their present envirnonments?  I suppose they’d say that the environment that the primates adapted to became overcrowded, necessitating a change in genetics in order for survival of the fittest to continue?  I just don’t buy it.  It doesn’t compute in my mind.  I suppose that is why we don’t see a new type of whitetail deer emerging…  In Pennsylvania the whitetails are overcrowded so they are smaller and not as healthy.  Shouldn’t a new type of deer start emerging?  The species is still the same, and given ample nutrition, would attain the size of the Ohio whitetails.  Oh, I’m sorry, it takes millions of years to make a new species…  (tongue in cheek there)  The law of entropy says something like this: Webster’s New World Dictionary, Second College Edition, 1972, says: 2.  a measure of the degree of disorder in a substance or a system:  entropy always increases and available energy diminishes in a colosed system, as the universe.”  In other words, “everything moves from a state of order to disorder” in a closed system.  That goes against the idea of evolution because evolution says that simple creatures are evolving into ever more complex animals.  That, in and of itself, goes against common sense.  I fail to see how more complexity is efficient enough to allow for greater survival ability.

 

Just my two cents worth!

Jody Rohr

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21 Responses to “The History Channel: Hype That Changes NOTHING!”

  1. joe said

    Sorry, I didn’t spend valuable time watching the show. For a dollar, I bought the original “Jungle Book” movie and watched it with the kids and had a blast.

  2. Tim said

    Good post, I agree Jody hit the nail on the head. The thing I don’t understand about evolution is that if it was true, then why is there not one other species that we can have a decent conversation with? I would imagine the world would be more like that of Lord of the Rings, with Hobbits and Elves, etc.

    • Wilson said

      Im not necessarily a believer in transitionary evolution but I do think that biological organisims tend to adapt to their environments. But I do sometimes wonder who the Neanderthal species were…and what happend to them they look kind of like us but not exactly.

    • Bruce said

      I’ve often wondered what scientists 200 years into the future would be able to piece together from siamese twins.

      “The humanoid species often was born in pairs in the 20th century. We have now evolved to an individual birthing process.”

    • David said

      Tim, there seems to have been other humanoids. Neanderthals and more modern humans coexisted, and probably even had offspring. There is an early photo of a Neanderthal woman sitting on a bench with modern humans taken in Africa.

      It seems we either killed them all off, or something else did.

      There is also fossil evidence of giant humans, and very small humans.

      They just didn’t survive into present times.

      Elves and other “little people” on the other hand seem to be part of the whole set of transient phenomena that don’t leave behind physical traces.

  3. Grrrrshmacker said

    I watched a little bit of the program and almost started LOL!! They seemed almose “giddy” that they’ve really found something now! Hilarious and Ludicrous all at the same time! And still, NO explanation regarding the species barrier.
    Fools I say…complete fools!!

  4. hector27 said

    most of this stuff is over my head so um yeah im sorry… tahnks, jody

  5. Jimmy Douglas said

    I too want to thank Jodi for her valuable insights. I’m working on a Master’s Degree in Communication right now. As explained in earlier posts, I don’t have cable. I do remember previous posts mentioning the All Seeing Eye at the end of the trailers that promoted this show that would change the world. One question I have for those who viewed the show is was this image seen in any parts of the show?

    From a communication standpoint, I wonder what the true agenda is? One possible communication theory that comes to mind, which is a persuasion theory, is called Inoculation Theory. This theory draws from the medical approach of Inoculation, except it applied on a psychological level instead of physical.

    From the medical approach, when you receive a vaccine you are given a weak dose of the virus. Hopefully in most instances the does is to small to infect or kill you, but what it does is trigger the body to build up antibodies to increase the body’s defense system. If the warning or attach is too small, the body will not react to create antibodies. If it is too strong it can infect and kill you.

    So, Inocualtion Theory posits the same strategy. A warning of a week attack, or a weak attack itself is presented to trigger a response. This is usually an attack on values. A weak attack triggers the persons pysoclogical defenses to build up defenses to protect these values. If the attack is too weak, the individual has no reason to defend thesse values because no real threat is detected. If the attack is too strong, the person may not fight for these values either.

    I would say that many of us use Inoculation or are exposed to it without realizing it. One good example can be seen in politics, especially with elections. How many times have we been told that if you vote for this person is elected then taxes will increase or if you vote for that person health care will continue to get worse. What they do is create fear that your values are at risk to persuade you to defend them.

    We can also see Inoculation being used as we discipline our children. We warn them about consequences for inappropriate behavior. When the line is crossed then an attack on values such as trust and freedoms can be made. If it is too weak, they may not defend these privileges. If it is too strong, they may interpret that there is no hope and no reason to defend and regain these privileges anymore.

    Now lets suppose that perhaps the Enemy wants us to defend and strengthen our beliefs and values about God and creation. Then lets say that later some sort of strong evidence supports Creation but leaves out God. Some may believe the upcoming deception such as aliens creating us. Something they can see and touch instead of faith. On the other side lets say Christians continue to defend the faith of God as creator. Is it possible that the more Christians are Inoculated to build up their value defenses that they are being set up to be persecuted, ridiculed, and marginalized even more?

    Keep the faith and put on the full armor of God. And stand.

  6. hector27 said

    lynn,

    well, the supremes did not overturn the gay marriage ban, thank God…
    what would it mean for our state and country?

    it would mean a change in the spiritual climate…
    in the same way that mass-murders (amok) increased after obama was elected…

    so would gay marriage affect peoples minds…
    not so much consciously, but more subconsciously…

    *sigh* i still have a hard time believing some people who call themselves (supposedly) Christians would support gay marriage? omg…

    i know, i know, im talkin kinda ‘out there’…

    however, most people are not aware of how much the ‘laws of the land’ affect their mental well-being…

    some things are spiritually discerned, ya know….

  7. Thomas said

    Here’s an article you might find interesting.

    http://www.conservapedia.com/Evolution

  8. joe said

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  9. Christine said

    That was a great post against this “new” find. I am printing it out and taking it to my youth group Sunday! As for carbon dating, this is a good article on it. carbon dating
    Jimmy, I see you are majoring in communications! I am going to school for Information systems, nearly through with my second year, but I am doing it online. I have some people in my present class who are majoring in communications. Any chance you’re doing yours online? I found what was the only accredited class at the time. University of Phoenix use to be the only one, now, even our local colleges are doing it!
    I have been doing some deep reading on the antichrist possibilites. This one is quite interesting, howbeit, we won’t know until it happens. I am posting a link to the study. It is quite in depth and, with school and all of the other things going on, I have to limit how much I read each day. I try to leave off in a place I can find it again. I was amazed at their description of the Royals having “blue blood.” Someone who was supposedly connected to the crash at Roswell had said that the “aliens” had greenish-blue blood. The knights are supposedly guarding this special bloodline that came from Christ. I believe they called it the Morovingian blood line. Think the Davinci Code. This author thinks that movie was made to help prepare people for the revealing of Antichrist. I was amazed at how similar their findings were to Lynns! They also believe in the Nephilim, that they are demonic, and that somehow this blood line has been preserved, gaurded, by the knights. Royalty are only allowed to marry someone who has been found to be in this blood line. We all know that this blood line is false, therefore, the whole premise of them being descended from Christ is false. However, they staunchly believe it and, because they do, it affords them the opportunity to set up a kingdom, based on a lie, as we well know who the father of that is. Anyway, it makes for good reading. It remains to be seen if this author is right or not. I was just really amazed at the same connection Lynn made.
    Skip the author’s note and go down to email from reader. Apparently, the author is upset about their research being stolen from them. However, if you begin to read farther down, you will read some interesting research. grailcode

    • Elisa said

      I concur. shalom.

    • Jimmy Douglas said

      Thanks Christine. I was a late bloomer as far as college goals. I was 33 when I began attending a junior college and commuted 180 mile round trips for a year-and-a-half before my family and I moved to the city. I have taken some online courses througout my undergraduate studies. I believe there is on online class that is a core class for my graduate studies that I will have to take.

      I can get on a soap box for quite a while about education and I commend you for that. I commend you for doing yours all online also. Depending on the instructor and how they format online classes, it has been my experience that online classes can involve more work than a traditional class. They are nice since it allows flexiblity, but I found that having to read lecture material on top of textbook and other supplimentary readings can be quite taxing. They take more self discipline also. Like I said, they allow flexiblity but there are still deadlines. It can be so easy to procrastinate and then become overwhelmed to get stuff done at the last minute.

      Some of the best online courses I took where not my favorite subjects, but they came with lecture DVDs. If you did not get it, instead of having to rewind conventional tapes, it was nice to drag the media player instead.

      I am not sure how yours are formatted. With technology evolving rapidly, I see lot’s of possibilities.

      I think my university offers a Bachelors Degree in Business Administration that can be completed all the way online. I’m not sure if they have any others yet.

      How are studies going with this route?

  10. Christine said

    I will receive my associates degree, barring any emergencies, by next January. I will recieve my bachelor’s 18 months after that. I am specializing in web page and multi media. I will be learning java programming, html, xml, and I think the other is sql. I am not sure, it is a database programming. Anyway, I can’t work in the factories anymore. I have ruined my back and can’t pass the physicals. School has been quite a challenge! I have had to do it online because of the back problem. I have had to take a couple of blocks off for surgery, I have had 4, and you don’t have that kind of flexibility with classes you have to physically attend. They drop you. Since I was still heavily medicated when this block started, they let me start with one until I can get back in the groove, then I will go back to two. I do two every 9 weeks. When I start the bachelor’s I will do 2 every 5 weeks. They move very fast! At the bachelor’s level they expect more team work and they watch to see how well you develop as a team leader, so it gets pretty challenging! I am an avid reader, and I love to write, so that helps. However, it is hard to stay focused for a long time on the same thing. I get frustrated with all the classes you have to take to be a world citizen. I have to have 9 credits on interdisciplinary studies. I have taken world religion, written communication for global markets, and presently taking a communications class for global markets. They all seem to repeat after awhile, but they are required to be an accredited degree. It does get you out of your little box! The classes that require reading and writing, I can make an A in. Algebra is the worst! I have never been good at mathematics and trying to learn them online is exceptionally challenging! I have managed to pass one algebra class with a c and have another to take! Then I have an algorithms class! Pray for me! My job gave me the boot after my 3rd surgery. I am on insurance disability at the moment and they are trying to put me on social security disability so they won’t have to pay it anymore, and my income will be cut in half, again! This is very difficult after earning $28 an hour! The only way I know I can climb back up is to reeducate myself and train for something different. I just pray that, if the world doesn’t end before I get there, G-d will give me favor for someone to hire an older lady just finishing school! LOL!

    • Jimmy Douglas said

      Hang in there Christine. It sounds like yours might have been a workers compensation injury. Workers comp varies from state to state, but it is not a good deal. Mine was workers comp as well. They keep changing and amending the laws and they are not in the injured employers favor. Medical is supposed to be payed for life, but they try tricks to get out of that too. Where I live there are hardly any doctors that even take comp anymore. I work for a non-profit right now; a Center for Independent Living (CIL.) We are non-residential. We are an educational/resource center for people with all disabilities of all ages. Wherever you are in the US, there is one that in your area. If you need information, please let me know and I will post some links. Your states rehabilitation commision may help with tuition also. As far as pain I know what you are talking about. I did not have a direct injury to my back but I have back pain due to breaking so many bones that are connected to all the muscles. I don’t know if you know what a tenz unit is but I get decent pain relief from this little portable electric stimulation device. My pain moves. Staying busy helps keep my mind off of it.

      It sounds like you are staying busy and pursuing positive activities. I commend you for this. Don’t worry about the end of the world. Worry about today. We are all watchful so we can discern what is from Him and what is not. Keep your mind on Him. The enemy wants your attention elsewhere.

      Things will fall into place.

  11. Jimmy Douglas said

    Hey Christine: Here are a couple of links that might benefit you. The first is a 9 minute video about the history of Centers for Independent Living. It features Ed Roberts who was rejected by Berkley and the California Rehabilitation Commission in the 60’s. Anyway he ended up going to Berkley and in 1975 the govenor appointed him as Director of the California Rehablitation Commission. The same people who told him he was too disabled to work or get an education.

    The second link is a directory of CIL’s in the US. You should find one in a city near you. Services are free and you they can be a great resource for information and refferals that may fit your indvidual needs.

    http://www.virtualcil.net/cils/

    Take Care and God Bless

  12. David said

    Jody, you are also making a bunch of assumptions, of the same type you say the scientist are making. I did not watch the History Channel show. Most of the shows on there and the Discovery channel are entertaining, and that’s about it.

    But I did read up on this find. This is not THE missing link. None of the scientist say that. They say this is A missing link that science hasn’t had yet. But this creature came from a very early time in Primates before they split in the lemur/monkey branches. One scientist said: “a missing link, not necessarily the missing link, although insofar as it seems to confirm Darwin’s speculation about transitional species.”

    I personally think that Darwin was only partially right, since you have hard to explain things like Ostriches, which are born with a callus on their knees, rather than developing the callus later (Baldwinian evolution). Sort of the idea that Giraffes might have stretched their necks longer, and then passed on that modification to their offspring. There are many examples of this in nature, and that doesn’t fit into the Darwinian model.

    So all they are saying is this primate has features from the earlier old world monkeys and the later great apes. So what they are excited about is seeing features like fingernails and tarsus bone, making it likely that she is a very early haplorhine primate.

    The thing about the age is they see all the milk teeth, and also the adult teeth. This would make the animal the human equivalent age of 6, which is why it was named “Ida”, after one of the researchers 6 year old daughter. As far as how old the actual animal was, that’s an educated guess based on the life span on similar creatures.

    As far as the resin thing:

    From: http://www.age-of-the-sage.org/evolution/messel_shale_pit.html

    So that’s why it’s in resin. The soft tissue part of the fossil is not just a shadow, and transfered with the fossil to the resin. They even had the stomach contents and the fur. Fossil dinosaurs with feathers have been found, as well as some that still have “skin” on them, so that is nothing new. But this fossil is 95% complete, so thats where the excitement came from. Plus this is a newer before seen animal.

    They don’t carbon date fossils. Carbon dating only works for things a few thousand years old. They usually determine the date from the geologic formations it is found in. I think that’s even a bit iffy.

    I think the show, and the whole “missing link” thing is a bunch of hype, but the answers to most of your questions can be found with a little research, as I just did.

  13. David said

    My post didn’t come out wright because I forgot the close the link.

    Part should have been:

    As far as the resin thing:

    From: http://www.age-of-the-sage.org/evolution/messel_shale_pit.html

    The Messel Pit actually lies somewhat below the adjacent land and blocks of oil shale recovered from it often contain 40%+ water. It has been found that exposure to air can be followed by rapid drying-out and the crumbling of the rock and of the fossils contained therein. It is necessary for specimens to be stored in cool, damp conditions and for transfer to resin, (where the fossil is freed from the shale using needles and scrapers and colourless, transparent resin is built up in thin layers), to take place promptly.”

    So that’s why it’s in resin. The soft tissue part of the fossil is not just a shadow, and transfered with the fossil to the resin. They even had the stomach contents and the fur. Fossil dinosaurs with feathers have been found, as well as some that still have “skin” on them, so that is nothing new. But this fossil is 95% complete, so thats where the excitement came from. Plus this is a newer before seen animal.

    They don’t carbon date fossils. Carbon dating only works for things a few thousand years old. They usually determine the date from the geologic formations it is found in. I think that’s even a bit iffy.

    I think the show, and the whole “missing link” thing is a bunch of hype, but the answers to most of your questions can be found with a little research, as I just did.

    • J Rohr said

      Hi David,
      I went to the website you posted the link to and thought it was very interesting. I understand now about how the skin shadow can be fossilized but I would have to SEE how the shadow is extracted from the shale and then preserved in order to totaly understand that part of the process.

      I stand corrected in regards to fossils not being carbon dated. I didn’t realize that, though I was aware that the layers of earth are used to date fossils.

      The show did mention milk teeth, now that you mention it. I am almost certain I heard 6 months said to be Ida’s age about two times, and I did hear them also say 6 years once. It may be that they said the milk teeth start to fall out at six months? And then somehow I took it to mean they were saying Ida was about 6 months old? I thought it was said two times, that she was about 6 months old, and the 6 years was said once. I only saw the program once and I didn’t take notes so I could have been mistaken and there were others in the room with me when I viewed the show and sometimes they were a distraction… though we were all trying not to make too many comments while watching. The article you referred me to said Ida was estimated to be about 6 years. She could have “closed joints” by then, I suppose, and still have juvenile dentition. I would not expect closed joints in a 6 month old. Still, what if Ida was slow getting her adult teeth? But the question of her age, by itself, isn’t worth worrying about. I was concerned about it only because I think the show was being too forceful about trying to tell us facts that I thought were stories or suppositions.

      I haven’t changed my mind that the program was strongly insinuating (like, stuff it down my throat, man…) that what Ida reveals is THE missing link. Okay, the advertising was meant to draw attention to the show. But I feel very certain, especially because of the way the show was wrapped up (with a disclaimer from the research team that some people aren’t going to be very happy about this discovery…), that there was an agenda to convince the viewers that the researchers think that Ida is THE missing link (or a representation of the missing link). If I could see the program again, I’d take notes when the researchers were talking, and try and record what they said, exactly, but even if not one of them said Ida was THE missing link, I think the overall flavor of the show leaned in that direction (strongly).

      I’m not interested in being “right” to the point that I insist on spreading misinformation around so, thank you for your input. But I maintain my personal opinion… And I know you are not trying to sway me from that… In a public forum like this I think it is very important to be as careful as possible to not spread misinformation. I did the best I could with what I had to work with. I agree that I could do more research before posting.
      Also, some of what I said in my post was said in regards to archeology and evolution theory in general, not just specifically about Ida.

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